Nokia's Present & Future

Discussion in 'Mobile Industry' started by Arun, Dec 22, 2010.

  1. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    5,926
    I wasn't intelligent enough to associate random info about optical sensor technology to whatever you imagined it would connect to; you weren't intelligent enough to read why there is increased resolution instead of just increasing sensor size before pulling the trigger on criticizing the resolution increase, etc.
    Lots of intelligence lacking in this discussion, as you can see.

    It could be worse, at least our posture and arguing capablities haven't gone down to a point where we're spewing insults at each other, wouldn't you agree?




    Now back to the topic:
    Interview with the troj.. I mean, Stephen Elop:
    http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/28/the-engadget-interview-nokia-ceo-stephen-elop-at-mwc-2012-vide/

    At ~3m30s, he clearly states that the 808 is just an "experiment" on the imaging technology in order to pass it on to WP7 devices, just like the N9 was an "experiment" on some user experience implementations to pass on to WP7 devices.
    I wonder if this also means the device will be made as scarce as the N9 and N900.


    Too bad that people were totally onto N9's user interface and 808's imaging capabilities, but very few people are onto WP7..
    With a total of 2.7 million WP7 phones sold throughout Q4 2011 (where Nokia sold 900k units), while Symbian phones sold some 18 million during the same period, I wonder which one is the "burning platform".

    Another interesting remark in Ahonen's post: despite the artificiallly increased price and scarce availability, Nokia sold 2x more N9 units than all Nokia WP7 units combined.
    Again, "burning platform"...
     
  2. Helmore

    Regular

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2010
    Messages:
    466
    I'm not going to claim that Windows Phone will be a massive success, but I think it's a bit premature to start drawing conclusions about WP's success from just the sales figures of Q4 2011. If sales figures for Windows Phones devices haven't grown a lot by this time next year, then yes I would agree with your conclusion. That said, I have a bit of an interest in WP's success, as I have a Samsung Omnia 7 myself (was pretty cheap without a contract too).

    As for the image sensor in the Nokia 808, the facts Nokia provided state that it has a pixel site size of 1,4 µm, which coincidentally is the same as the image sensor on the iPhone 4S and I think most people will agree that the iPhone 4S takes pretty decent pictures. And yes, I realize that not all pixels are created equal even if they're the same size, but I would think that Nokia know's their stuff about image sensors.
     
  3. hoho

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    1,218
    Location:
    Estonia
    WP is more than a year old. Just Nokia released their stuff late last year, others were selling long before that.

    Though seeing the "stillborn" N9 with it's very high price sell several times more than WP7 stuff was rather amusing.
     
  4. JohnH

    Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    586
    Location:
    UK
    Nothing random in the information, it is directly relevant to the whole "megapixel" discussion, all you had to say was that they hadn't reduced the sensor site size (the obvious intelligently thought out response), something that wasn't mentioned in the marketing paper you linked to by the way. But, instead you try to pass it off as a "cheap" response because it doesn't fit with your world view, of course we've never seen that from you before have we... :roll:
     
  5. Helmore

    Regular

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2010
    Messages:
    466
    I'm not entirely sure, I've no idea what the sensor site size on the Nokia N8 is, but I believe that the sensor site size in the Nokia 808 is smaller than on the N8, but not to the extend that the increase in megapixels would have you believe. I mean, they increased the pixel sensor size by 2.5 times while increasing the megapixel count by around 5 times.

    EDIT: I just looked it up, the Nokia N8 has a sensor site size of 1.75 µm and the Nokia 808 has a 1.4 µm site size.
     
  6. JohnH

    Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    586
    Location:
    UK
    That's interesting, would have to get hold of the relative active area of the sites to determine how much extra noise the size reduction would introduce, but naively you might be looking at a 30-40% reduction in site efficiency, should be more then compenstated for by a 2.5x growth in sensor area.
     
  7. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    5,926
  8. dagamer

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2011
    Messages:
    1,261
    Location:
    Houston, TX
  9. french toast

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,649
    Location:
    Leicestershire - England
    This at least shows that Microkia is still innovating behind the scenes, they have a lot of top quality engineers there that think outside the box, ive stated it here before but Microkia shoves a HUGE proportion of its budget into R&D, more than APPLE and i think microsoft...well at least untill the 2009/2010 timeframe...

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    http://www.intomobile.com/2011/02/03/nokias-rd-budget-waaaaay-bigger-than-competition/

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/01/m_and_a_beats_r_and_d/

    Microkia's problem was getting all these solutions forward into phones..constrast that to Apple who squeeze every last ounce of profit out of their R&D expenditure...
    So with that being said, its nice to see some of that massive wad of cash come through with something that blows the competition out of the water and actually captures the imagination of the press/public...as evidenced with the MWC gadget of the show award.

    I don't think another company would be so bloody crazy to spend 5 years developing something unique like this for a bloody phone...think back to what the phone industry was doing camera wise then??...
    Thats what made Microkia the unique company it was, and also the biggest phone wise..(which it still is)


    What we now need from Microkia is some up to date processor components, up to date screen resolutions, NFC for WP, and hopefully that genius sliding feature from MEEGO...that was awesome..oh and do away with on screen buttons..another thing Meego introduced, but Android has already copied with ICS.


    For those who keep slagging off Symbian..they should actually take a hard look at recent additions like Belle, i think it looks bloody fantastic, is fully featured apart form the dying flash/low res screens and is the most resource efficient...the 701 for instance flys on a 1ghz SINGLE CORE ARM 11. imagine what a duel core Krait would do!?...

    EDIT; what we also need from Microkia (and in particular Microsoft..) is some top quality AA games that are worthy for the XBOX LIVE monika....the current crop are just not worth talking about..and lets face it thats one of the main attractions of going with an Iphone.
     
    #549 french toast, Mar 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 6, 2012
  10. Gubbi

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Messages:
    3,081
    More than half of their R&D efforts were toward Symbian and MeeGo, which Elop made sure was for nothing.

    I've said all along, that aligning software development with Microsoft was sound long term, but holy crap did Elop b0rk the transition up.

    Cheers
     
  11. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    5,926

    Yap, the board of directors sure placed the whole company beneath Microsoft.
    WP7 is, by every possible business standpoint, a total disgrace.

    The only hope I can see for Nokia will be with Windows 8 for smartphones.
    Of course, most of Nokia's factory capacity will be reduced to near nothing by then, making them awfully close to HTC in differentiation abilities.
     
  12. wco81

    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2004
    Messages:
    5,661
    Location:
    West Coast
    Why would W8 phones fare any better than WP7 phones?

    It's going to be the same Metro UI, right?
     
  13. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    5,926
    Because of software compatibility between desktop, tablet and smartphones.
    One O.S. to rule them all, while changing only the UI's proportions between screen sizes.

    Windows Phone 7 is shallow, to say the least. Windows 8 won't be.
     
  14. french toast

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,649
    Location:
    Leicestershire - England
    Your speaking in terms where wp8 is w8... do mean that or are you refering to the shared Kernel...but still different operating systems?:???:

    Although we did see a phone message tile on an early W8 screen..and Balmer slipped up once or twice..i still thought they would have distinct phone/tablet/pc software..just with a shared user interface (metro) and broard app compatibility. (shared Kernel)
     
  15. hoho

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    1,218
    Location:
    Estonia
    I'd be quite surprised if compability would go beyond what they had with WP6/CE where bigger part of winapi/MFC was supported on both platforms.

    Also, WP7 is around 1.5 years old by now and has had the possibility to learn from goods and bads that others have done in much longer time, including MS itself. If it hasn't got anywhere so far I find it very hard to believe they ever will.
     
  16. wco81

    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2004
    Messages:
    5,661
    Location:
    West Coast
    So software compatibility and integration is what's holding WP7 back now?

    How much more would WP8 be integrated with W8?

    I presume WP7 syncs with Windows 7, uses all the MS services like XBL and Live Messenger?
     
  17. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    5,926
    I believe Windows 8 for ARM will support most software made from mid-2013 onwards, whereas Windows 8 for x86 will run pretty much everything that runs on Windows 7 today.
    Then, there'll be Windows 8 ARM for ARM smartphones and Windows 8 for x86 smartphones.

    Of course, Windows 8 "Smartphone" may be initially exclusive to high-end phones with 720p/768p screens, while WP7 may get upgrades for lower-end devices (like Lumia 610).


    And as I said, the only difference between Windows 8 desktop, tablet and smartphone editions will be in the proportions of UI elements. Smartphones should even be able to access the "classic windows" UI when connected to a docking station with keyboard and mouse.


    I'm not just pulling this out of thin air, OEMs are already counting on it.
    It's the next logical step for Microsoft (Apple too, eventually), and for computing devices altogether.
    Google may eventually get stuck without this desktop "extension", given Chrome's apparent failure.
     
  18. Gubbi

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Messages:
    3,081
    Phones, tablets and PCs won't have the same kernel, but all will feature the Windows RT (RunTime) software stack which Metro apps will be coded for. This means that developers can support all Microsoft platforms by merely changing the target in Visual Studio (at least in theory).

    This means you be able to run your apps on all platforms. It gives Microsoft a giant crowbar to break into markets. You work PC runs Win 8? Well, so will your work phone, because that way you get to run the same apps. You buy a few casual games for your work phone while stuck in airports, - sure would be nice if your tablet in your livingroom could run the same games, better get a Win 8 tablet. Etc.

    Cheers
     
  19. wco81

    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2004
    Messages:
    5,661
    Location:
    West Coast
    That is an ideal but Android developers have enough problems getting apps. and games working on different smart phones.

    So will graphics-intensive apps. or those that use the hardware unique to mobile devices (GPS, compass, gyro) work seamlessly on the desktop?
     
  20. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    5,926
    I'm pretty sure the Windows development can cope a whole lot better with hardware fragmentation than Android development.

    What happens when you try to run Skyrim in a PC with sandybridge's IGP?
    As all games, if the API compliance and amount of video memory is there, it'll just run slower.

    Regarding hardware unique to mobile devices.. it just won't work? "GPS not found"?
    It happens with my GPS-less tablet, why wouldn't it happen with a Windows 8 App?

    Besides, the software can have a flag telling which kind of device it was made for, so the O.S. can send a warning if the user tries to run a software that wasn't meant for that device.
     

Share This Page

Loading...