Nokia announces 3D mobile gaming platform

[kemosabe]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/press_release.php?aid=15497

Anyone believe this recent related rumour (and no, I don't need to be schooled about the reliability of this source)? :smile:

 

[hidefguy]

Anyone believe this recent related rumour (and no, I don't need to be schooled about the reliability of this source)? :smile:

Looks interesting - I'm surprised that ATI GPU's haven't been announced for more than a couple of handsets, like the LG SV360. I'm also amazed that Nokia hasn't announced any cell phone devices (as opposed to gaming devices) with 2D/3D acceleration, yet Nokia reps are consistantly talking about such devices on the way. I was hoping that the new Nokia N80 will have a 2D/3D GPU, but there's been no indication that this is the case.

 

[hkultala]

Anyone believe this recent related rumour (and no, I don't need to be schooled about the reliability of this source)? :smile:

the "related rumour" is very clueless.

qualcomm is a small company which owns a lot of nasty patents.

qualcomm is the biggest "pain in the ass" for nokia; nokia has to pay qualcomm some big bucks for using some things they have patented.

so nokia has always been "interested" in qualcomm - but NOT in a way to co-operate - but the way of seeking a way to sink them, get rid of paying money to them.

In my past I've been doing R&D work at nokia and have been listening some "qualcomm has managed to patent this trivial thing, we have to do this differently in order to avoid their patent" -discussions so I know what I'm talking about.

 

[kemosabe]

Heh, I'm well aware of the loveless history between Nokia and Qualcomm. But the question here is not whether Nokia will succeed in evading Qualcomm's CDMA or other patents - it's whether they will look to an outside GPU provider for their 3D gaming platform. I can see an issue stemming from Qualcomm's collaboration with ATI (integration of Imageon in its upcoming MSM7xxx chipsets). That might be enough to steer Nokia toward someone else, but there are other people on B3D who seem to know more.

 

[Lazy8s]

OMAP2420 still seems likeliest to be at least one of the solutions chosen based upon Nokia's demonstration of the new platform back at E3 2005. That demonstration was running on production-ready processors, and the only graphics processors which the competition had in production back then don't seem to be a good match for the demo.

However, Nokia's new platform has been delayed about a year, so a less likely possibility exists that the graphics choice could've been changed in that time.

 

[roninja]

OMAP2420 still a maybe, but by 2007 OMAP 2430 will also be production ready.

 

[Ailuros]

OMAP2420 still a maybe, but by 2007 OMAP 2430 will also be production ready.

OMAP 2420 contains MBX, while OMAP 2430 MBX Lite. You didn't mean OMAP 3430 by any chance?

 

[Lazy8s]

With the respectable performance of MBX Lite, speculation that Nokia might choose the 2430 instead, for at least one of the hardware configurations of their new platform, in order to save in costs has come about.

Nokia might be able to use varying underlying hardware and still maintain acceptable compatibility across their platform with the right choices in chips considering a few OMAP2 application demonstrations have already been shown on both the 2420 and 2430.

Now that Nokia is waiting for 2007, though, they might as well just use an SGX chip.

 

[roninja]

Question is will OMAP 2420 be inside any of the current N and E series models Nokia are currently unvealing? Otherwise SE Ericsson's adoption of MBX lite in 3 of its leading handsets will mean Nokia have catching up to do.

btw, I meant OMAP 2430 very much as how Lazy8's described.

 

[Megadrive1988]

pardon my ignorance on the subject, but does this Nlkai mobile 3D gaming platform have anything to do with the Ngage2 or next-gen Ngage that uses an embedded PowerVR MBX ?

 

[Lazy8s]

Yeah, the Nokia mobile 3D gaming platform is referring to the next generation N-Gage. Whether they'll continue using the N-Gage brand name hasn't been officially confirmed, but it's very likely since they've put a lot of advertising into it and since the name won't make a difference when the platform will just be a built-in part of their normal phones anyway.

However, the inclusion of MBX is just speculation; Nokia hasn't revealed which technology(ies) they're going to use.

 

[amk]

Now that Nokia is waiting for 2007, though, they might as well just use an SGX chip.

Considering the time MBX took to get into consumer devices, which seems typical for embedded IP, I doubt SGX could be on store shelves in 2007. Even OMAP3430 uses MBX, and the only SGX licencee we know about is Intel.

The delay in Ngage2 (or whatever it'll be called) will help with getting quality launch software, which Nokia needs if the platform is to be taken seriously.

I'd like to hear more about Nokia's distribution model. It sounds somewhat like XBox Live Arcade, which is a boon for indie developers.

 

[Ailuros]

Even OMAP3430 uses MBX, and the only SGX licencee we know about is Intel.

Is there anywhere a link or a hint what OMAP3 really uses in the end? Simply the fact that it's slated for 65nm doesn't sound to me like 2006 availability for one.

I'm not saying that it's using SGX, heck it's not even certain that it definitely will use MBX. OMAP3 is a new architecture for TI and there aren't any licensing/integration announcements past OMAP2.

 

[Xmas]

However, the inclusion of MBX is just speculation; Nokia hasn't revealed which technology(ies) they're going to use.

I think you could have asked them at GDC.

 

[roninja]

At present stage OMAP 3430 is likely to use MBX lite - given the reference to 1m polys per sec, MBX is clocked at 2m ps on 2420.

Then again OMAP 3 will be a series of chips and if TI could licence SGX in the coming weeks/months then I'd hope a later OMAP 3 chip would have SGX.

 

[Kristof]

Nokia GDC Blog

Nokia has an interesting Blog with lots of pictures and info, see details here:

http://www.forum.nokia.com/gdc

You need a WAP browser though to access the contents like this:

http://forum.nokia.mobi/mgpext/app/gdc/s60/blog;jsessionid=NCNKKAFPGGKG?offs=5

If you want to use your PC you'll have to use a WAP browser as is available here:

http://www.winwap.com/downloads.php

K-

 

[amk]

You need a WAP browser though to access the contents like this:

http://forum.nokia.mobi/mgpext/app/gdc/s60/blog;jsessionid=NCNKKAFPGGKG?offs=5

Do we? That link works fine in Firefox. There's a pic of the devkit, but we've seen a better picture in an E3 2005 vid.

Should we infer anything from a PowerVR devrel's interest in next-gen NGage?

 

[kemosabe]

pardon my ignorance on the subject, but does this Nlkai mobile 3D gaming platform have anything to do with the Ngage2 or next-gen Ngage that uses an embedded PowerVR MBX ?

From my understanding, they are marketing this as a separate platform for 3D-enabled smartphones, but not under the N-Gage umbrella.

 

[roninja]

http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw....033e91f6/GDC06-Nokia-3-20-06_QT-300k.mov.html

The video kind of infers to me that the current N series will be hardware accelerated. Anybody care to comment further.

 

[Lazy8s]

That next generation demo game, Tin Star, was created by Housemarque, produced by Futuremark (or was the blog entry mistaken?), and presented by Nokia. The only graphics processor company that would be poetically fitting to have provided the hardware would be Bitboys, with drivers from their supplier, Hybrid Graphics.

Tin Star? More like Fin Star.