Nintendo Switch Technical discussion [SOC = Tegra X1]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Alucardx23, Mar 15, 2017.

  1. Alucardx23

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  2. Shifty Geezer

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    Nintendo bought old stock and just ignores the other 4 cores? :???:
     
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  3. Alucardx23

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    Seems so. I don't see where is the "custom" Tegra X1 part Nvidia mentioned. The article doesn't really say if the A53 cores are enabled. It could be like the Google Pixel C tablet, where only the A57 cores are available.

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/9972/the-google-pixel-c-review/2

    "One of the highlights of the Pixel C is the fact that it is powered by NVIDIA's Tegra X1 SoC. This technically isn't the first time that X1 has shown up in an Android device since it powers the SHIELD Android TV, but it's the first time it has been used in a mobile device. This implementation of Tegra X1 has four Cortex A57 cores with a peak frequency of 1.91GHz, along with four Cortex A53 cores. There are a few things that need to be mentioned about how Tegra X1 differs from other SoCs with eight cores. The first is the fact that in theory, Tegra X1 uses cluster migration rather than Heterogeneous Multi-processing. The reason I said in theory is because the implementation in the Pixel C is really only using the A57 cluster and scaling the frequency as low as 51MHz and as high as 1.91GHz."
     
  4. BRiT

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    Nothing new here for those who actually had common sense. Hopefully everyone, who doesn't, will wise up and stop believing in magic sauce.
     
  5. Goodtwin

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    Hey now, I resemble that statement. :) Seriously though, your right, the writing has been on the wall for quite some time now, and its honestly good to see it put to rest. It was really the Shield Console that was throwing me for a loop. The assumption that a small device like the Shield TV was running max clocks and the Switch , albeit a smaller device, was going to require such significant downclocks seemed unlikely. However, as soon as the user over at Gaf ran test confirming that the Shield TV does in fact throttle up and down, things started to make more sense. When you account for hardware utilization being far superior on Switch compared to Shield TV, and CPU clocks being limited to portable mode, it really did come together. This is what the TX1 is capable of in the form factor that is Switch.
     
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  6. ProspectorPete

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    If they were promised a custom version (https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2016/10/20/nintendo-switch/) , would you say Nintendo "got Nvidia'd?"
    Nintendo probably goes for proven, reliable designs though. Like how in the Hubble Telescope they use a PlayStation 1 processor instead of a Pentium 2 processor.

    This is good news though, at one point they might allow the smaller cores to be used; for a Tetris type game maybe so that you have 30 mins of extra playtime or something
     
  7. bunnybug

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    Glad that's over with. people believing a foxconn tester over developers, nintendo docs and eurogamer, even worst when the switch was taken apart it was claimed it was a devkit.
     
  8. Shifty Geezer

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    No, and you're being childish pursuing that concept and should lay it to rest (certainly at B3D). Nintendo got exactly what they negotiated and paid for - otherwise they'll be suing nVidia for breech of contract. A PR statement with the single word 'custom' without any definition means squat, especially when seen in context:

    'THe custom Tegra processor,' definitive article. Not 'a custom Tegra processor,' but the one and only one. And 'custom' in this context could very much mean nVidia's custom-made part for their purposes of high-end mobile gaming, being used in another product.

    Coupling that with the fact 'got/being nVidia'd' doesn't mean anything because the cases you cite are all different scenarios, just drop it.
     
  9. HMBR

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    so custom means: don't use the A53 cores and lower the CPU and GPU clocks...
    oh well, it should still be a lot nicer than the Shield devices since it's not running with regular Android/OGL
     
  10. ToTTenTranz

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    In the sense they got a nvidia SoC in their console, yes.
    In the sense they got old tech for their console like the PS3 before them, also yes. But getting old tech is a recurrent thing in Nintendo. I think there's little chance it was nvidia tricking them into buying the old tech but rather Nintendo execs telling their engineers "here's a niquel, go buy a SoC for our next console. I'm expecting you to bring some change back or you're out of a job".

    That new TX1 Shield Console that was submitted to the FCC back in June 2016 might be some poison Nintendo wasn't counting on, though. If it's ever released, that is.
    Imagine nvidia launching that handheld at Shield TV clocks and a $250 cost, together with renewed efforts to bring more AAA ports to Android using Vulkan.
    Or better yet, postpone that handheld for another couple of months and use a TX2 instead with 8GB RAM. Now that would be a blast of a scene to watch.

    "Hey Nintendo's console is great and all, but here's our own console that is much cheaper, much more powerful and capable of playing multiplatform games".




    If it was an actual custom version then maybe. Not being one, it's practically impossible. The inter-module connect in TX1 allows for one module to connect at each time, so it's either the A53 cores or the A57.



    A rather harsh accusation given how the very next sentence practically proved he was kidding, don't you think?



    Next level after this will be people defending nvidia's use of "custom" in the description because there's a "custom name" printed in the chip, so that totally makes it a custom chip.

    Just face it: the "custom" word in their blog post was there to mislead people into thinking it would be something other than nvidia's 2 year-old existing chip. Nothing else.
    The fact that you have had to highlight the damned pronouns and do a semantics analysis to try to excuse the word "custom" just proves as much.
     
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  11. bunnybug

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    yes that's what it means, and in fact makes it custom compared to the original TX1.
     
  12. Rootax

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    So, why the hell the Switch was so late if it's a non custom SoC...
     
  13. Pixel

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    Software. N64 was delayed nearly a year for Mario 64.
     
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  14. Rootax

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    Well I can understand for the N64. Big jump (2d=>3d) for them, on a not dev friendly plate form. Here, the SoC is well known, nothing special under the hood...
    I can believe the software thing if you mean all the nvidia dev environment. But they bullshit us with a "custom tegra ship thing", so, maybe the nvidia api is just vulkan with more green stuff...
    So... maybe they struggle with a useless thing like Rumble HD or something...
     
  15. Clukos

    Clukos Bloodborne 2 when?
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    More and more I'm thinking it's because of Zelda and nothing else. They wanted to launch the Switch alongside Zelda, else why wouldn't they delay it further and add the X2 instead (I don't think the cost differential would have been that big, considering Nvidia will be offering the new Shield at the same pricepoint, and they'd save money in the long run)? Or maybe they wanted to avoid Scorpio in the holidays but I don't see how these two compete against each other. Maybe they'll do a "new" Switch later on like they did with 3ds and that'll have the X2, who knows.
     
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  16. N00b

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    Excuse me! Could someone point me to where TechInsight compares the die shot of the Switch SOC to the die shot of a vanilla X1? I didn't find it.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm inclined to believe them. BUT how can they be so sure the Switch SOC is a stock X1 and nothing was changed? They can be sure only if they have a die shot of a stock X1. So why not publish that along?

    Maybe it's my scientific education demanding proof, but to me it's still hearsay until someone overlays the Switch SOC and X1 die shot.
     
  17. Clukos

    Clukos Bloodborne 2 when?
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    [​IMG]

    And a larger version: http://i.imgur.com/pe8SQSm.gif

    Credit goes to itschris from gaf: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=232139382#post232139382

    Edit: Brown = Switch
     
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  18. N00b

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    Great. That's what I wanted to see. Thanks!
     
  19. Shifty Geezer

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    Technically, yes. If you buy a car that's customised for you, it can come with just a paint job. Doesn't mean it comes with two extra wheels and a second engine.
    Custom controllers - don't add additional CUs or increased processor clocks...

    Don't we have this debate every time a console has a 'custom' part? People read too much into the word, especially when it's clearly a throw-away remark. It may have been misleading, but I'm pretty sure Nintendo didn't enter into the contract based on a similar PR post. They weren't ringing nVidia up yesterday in a tizzy saying they've just learnt that all they got was a bog-standard TX1 and where were the customisations nVidia promised, linking to that web page.*

    I'm not trying to excuse the word - I'm trying to explain to people how to read properly to understand the words. Then we might avoid some of these sillier debates and criticisms and people latching onto a single word in a single page and basing their entire belief system around it, trying to interpret all other facts and evidence around that one word.

    * Okay, that might happen. It's innocent until proven guilty though and it'd mean Nintendo weren't following at all what their hardware was and don't know the specs of their own machine. If nVidia have been evil, Nintendo have been incompetent.

    ** Correction for those who want it
    I was talking about 'the article', the article meaning not the passage of text but the word type consisting of the few words, 'a', 'an' and 'the'. Not pronouns. Not all languages have articles but they're very useful for clarity. Pronouns are short words used as short-cuts for nouns
     
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  20. phoenix_chipset

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    Nintendo's been around the block. Nvidia isn't able to convince them they don't need a wider bus, eDRAM, more cores or whatever, for a well rounded powerful gaming device. Seems to me Nintendo just wanted to maximize profit and do as little extra work as possible. Nvidia fulfilled that need. I'm disappointed as well in the switch's hardware but it wasn't Nvidia's doing.

    I'd argue there was some deceit from Nvidia with regards to the ps3's gpu (though it's also true the ps3 needed to be delayed and unified vs. fixed shaders *may* not have seemed so clear cut in early 2005), and they're scum for sending the Xbox to an early grave (how cool would a reliable slim Xbox be?) but whatever the switch is, it's all on Nintendo.
     
    #20 phoenix_chipset, Mar 16, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
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