Nintendo JoyCon/Controller Technology *spawn*

ninelven

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They are selling half a controller for $50.... half. Holy Fuck. At least they give you a nice "discount" of $80 for a whole controller... Actually.... $80 isn't a whole controller... you still have to buy the $30 charging grip... bringing the total retail price of an additional controller to $110 WTF.COM. I guess it at least makes the "pro" controller look like a steal at $70 :rolleyes:.
 
There is no getting around the fact that the Joy Cons are expensive, and the Pro Controller is expensive, but at least they have superior tech built in compared to the $60-65 controllers for PS4 and X1, not to mention the $149 Elite controller Microsoft sells. Its really been the trend with increasingly expensive accessories that has gotten pretty crazy. What did a standard PS2 Dual Shock run back in 2006? $30? We now pay double for basically the same controller.
 
There is no getting around the fact that the Joy Cons are expensive, and the Pro Controller is expensive, but at least they have superior tech built in compared to the $60-65 controllers for PS4 and X1, not to mention the $149 Elite controller Microsoft sells.

They have?
You mean the IR camera and NFC chip?
 
There is no getting around the fact that the Joy Cons are expensive, and the Pro Controller is expensive, but at least they have superior tech built in compared to the $60-65 controllers for PS4 and X1, not to mention the $149 Elite controller Microsoft sells. Its really been the trend with increasingly expensive accessories that has gotten pretty crazy. What did a standard PS2 Dual Shock run back in 2006? $30? We now pay double for basically the same controller.

What superior tech does a Switch Pro controller have vs the standard PS4 controller? DS4 has a light bar, touch pad, speaker, headset jack, analog triggers, and a standard PC interface option. The Switch Pro controller claims "HD Rumble" - which I'm not yet convinced is anything different from the rumble in DS4, and Amiibo support (so NFC reader?). I'd say that the DS4 clearly has more/superior tech and costs $10 less.

I also don't agree that DS4 is basically DS2 and it's not really fair to compare 2017 dollars to 2000 dollars.

There's probably more of an argument with the XB1 controller which doesn't have most of the above features and even needs AA batteries. But at least the $270 console comes with one so less people have to bother with it.

With the JoyCons Nintendo designed themselves into a corner by having a "full" controller that needs two of a lot of things - batteries, radios, motion sensors, motors, etc. So it'd be hard to charge much less than $80 for two of them. But that doesn't excuse the $30 grip, which contains what, charging circuitry?
 
They have?
You mean the IR camera and NFC chip?
Haptive feedback, advanced gyro controls, IR camera, NFC, and each Joy Con is a complete controller in some games. You will be able to play two player Mario Kart and Street fighter with one set of Joy Cons. I'm not defending the price, they are expensive, but the competition offers even less for nearly the same price.

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The point is, controllers are overpriced on all consoles. We could debate which features are more worth while till the cows come home. Nintendo deserves criticism for its expensive controllers, and so does Microsoft and Sony.
 
The point is, controllers are overpriced on all consoles. We could debate which features are more worth while till the cows come home. Nintendo deserves criticism for its expensive controllers, and so does Microsoft and Sony.

Nintendo deserves more criticism than Sony because their Pro controller is more expensive, less featureful, and not included with the system. It's hard to say for sure how overpriced DS4 is all things considered but it's easy to say that Pro is overpriced in comparison. I'm not going to really regard how much we should criticize MS because frankly that's verging on kicking a corpse at this point.

I think Nintendo is charging more than Sony for the Pro controller because they want to pass it off as a luxury item and therefore diminish any perception that it's a must buy for most users. That's going to backfire if it ends up being exactly that.
 
Nintendo deserves more criticism than Sony because their Pro controller is more expensive, less featureful, and not included with the system. It's hard to say for sure how overpriced DS4 is all things considered but it's easy to say that Pro is overpriced in comparison. I'm not going to really regard how much we should criticize MS because frankly that's verging on kicking a corpse at this point.

I think Nintendo is charging more than Sony for the Pro controller because they want to pass it off as a luxury item and therefore diminish any perception that it's a must buy for most users. That's going to backfire if it ends up being exactly that.
they still manage 20+ hours . Sony should get more criticism because their controller only lasts about 8 hours .
 
they still manage 20+ hours . Sony should get more criticism because their controller only lasts about 8 hours .

Yeah the DS4 battery life is bad, shockingly bad really, I guess the audio, touchscreen, and lighting really add up. This is all despite having a battery that's nearly twice the capacity as the one in the individual JoyCons, so it's not like they cheaped out relative to Nintendo.

But at least you can plug it in via micro USB while you're playing. And at least it's not Wuupad levels of awful.

Let's see if the JoyCons can last 20+ hours when using the "HD Rumble" to any serious extent, or if that actually ends up becoming a major feature.
 
to be fair, I think everyone has bitched about it. Nothing has changed and nothing is going to change, it seems, so we've learnt to live with it.

I'd wager that the reason that Sony hasn't changed anything is because there is a cost aspect and because it's impacting a small segment of the user base. Sony will know this from user usage metrics the PS4 collects.

It feels like everybody is complaining because forums like these are echo chambers for the equivalent of the gaming 1%. Except people on forums are less than 1% of the gaming market. We have preferences, usage patterns and needs that are statistical outliers. Your average user likely isn't playing a game for 8 hours, i.e. long enough for the battery to drain in a single sitting. For people that do, Sony will sell you a nice second controller at a ridiculous markup and even a nice cradle to conveniently keep them in. Which you'll happy pay.

For Sony this is win-win.

Can Nintendo assume their customer base will work like that? I'm not so sure. :nope:
 
Do we have idea what the IR camera is capable of, other than gesture recognition?

Nintendo don't seem it gave shown any actual games that us it yet have they?

I do wonder if it's really just for Wii VC, and IR want too much bother to upgrade it slightly over the wiimote.

They can't make that much from WiiVC though. Seems like an expensive waste if no Switch games use it.
 
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I'd wager that the reason that Sony hasn't changed anything is because there is a cost aspect and because it's impacting a small segment of the user base. Sony will know this from user usage metrics the PS4 collects
Usage metrics will be influenced by options though. Sony will know I play a decent amount of the time with the controller connected via cable (ergo I don't need a high battery capacity) simply because the battery keeps running out. Basically I have the controller wired until I need to charge the headset, and then I swap them over, because they're both a bit shit. Coming off PS3 where the BT earpiece and controller could last what seemed a month without charging. If it had a 30 hour battery life they'd find I use it wirelessly more often. My usage habit with DS3 wasn't to connect it up to the console for charging between gaming sessions, and it's not a behaviour I've particularly adopted on PS4 either and one I'm not really likely to, preferring to just leave the controller on a convenient surface when done.

The constant light bar is moronic and it's moronic that Sony hasn't had sense to disable it on consoles that haven't got a camera attached; just as it's cheap and nasty for Nintendo not to provide a charging option on the default JoyCon adaptor.

For people that do, Sony will sell you a nice second controller at a ridiculous markup and even a nice cradle to conveniently keep them in. Which you'll happy pay.
Actually, no. The inconvenience isn't enough that I'll shell out for a bit of moulded plastic with a USB pass-through or somesuch at crazy markup. It is enough that I'll complain and Sony will lose Good Will. They (and all other companies) need to weigh that into their decision making process. Feedback is a measure of that - if people are bitching and moaning online, chances are they're doing the same offline when friends and relatives are asking about their console choices. Those conversations are led by the emotional impact. If the last emotion of a console was the frustration of using it rather than the joy of the last game played, it's likely someone will hear that when enquiring. I communicate lots of grumbling regards my SP4 despite it being a very nice bit of kit because it's fairly annoying to use at times and those are the lasting emotions for me (and impressions I'll pass on).
 
Do we have idea what the IR camera is capable of, other than gesture recognition?
I'm guessing it's a cheap, low-res IR camera. The example is just silhouette matching I presume.

Theu can make that muck from WiiVC though. Seems like an expensive waste if no Switch games use it.
Gimmicky features on controllers that go mostly unused have been the norm since DS2. Whether motion or touchpads or inbuilt cameras (eg. Vita's front facing camera), these features contribute little return on the added cost. Perhaps it's time console companies gave up on the altruistic visions and just went with the common-or-garden common denominator?
 
Actually, no. The inconvenience isn't enough that I'll shell out for a bit of moulded plastic with a USB pass-through or somesuch at crazy markup. It is enough that I'll complain and Sony will lose Good Will.

Good will doesn't show up on their balance books, putting a larger capacity battery in will. It wasn't that long ago when Sony would bleeding money hand over fist. Even now, the wider Sony company are not in the kind of position where they can afford to spend money on good will gestures - particularly on things that likely aren't affecting that many people. Just the usual vocal minority with their first world problems.

They (and all other companies) need to weigh that into their decision making process. Feedback is a measure of that - if people are bitching and moaning online, chances are they're doing the same offline when friends and relatives are asking about their console choices.

People bitched online and yet the PS4 continues to sell insanely well. I think people who like to complain over estimate the importance of their bitching or the sway it has in the real world. The average man in the street has bigger things to worry about than the battery life in their console's controller or whether their phone has a 3.5mm jack. :yep2: These are first world one percenter problems.
 
I didn't say my bitching was going to change things (although see XB1 for a case study of how it can). I'm saying it's a factor Sony have to consider in their balancing of costs versus benefits.

The more generous you are, the more you spend and the more positive people's attitude will be. The stingier you are, the more negative people will be but the more you save. It's a balancing act to maximise long-term profitability. There's no doubt that a lot of PS4's success was due to good will Sony managed to generate, often playing off the negative will being shown MS with their choices. There's also no denying the bad will being shown towards Nintendo which'll lead to less enthusiasm at launch versus if every move their made was being cheered and applauded.

Sony's battery choice may well have been the more profitable one this case. Leaving the light on all the time just makes them look stupid as they count that extra money. If they have no pride, they can live with that. ;)
 
IThe more generous you are, the more you spend and the more positive people's attitude will be. The stingier you are, the more negative people will be but the more you save. It's a balancing act to maximise long-term profitability.

How would putting a more expensive, longer-lasting battery in DS4 tangibly change things to improve Sony's long term profitability? Exactly what do you think would change?
 
How would putting a more expensive, longer-lasting battery in DS4 tangibly change things to improve Sony's long term profitability? Exactly what do you think would change?

The balancing act Sony did was to trade off consumer goodwill against a cheaper and significantly shorter lasting battery.
 
The balancing act Sony did was to trade off consumer goodwill against a cheaper and significantly shorter lasting battery.
Sure, but how has that tangibly hurt Sony?
 
How would putting a more expensive, longer-lasting battery in DS4 tangibly change things to improve Sony's long term profitability? Exactly what do you think would change?
It wouldn't. I already said it was probably the more profitable choice for Sony. However, consider 200 niggling little things that make a 5* console in a 2* experience - that clearly loses sales. It may be impossible to quantify the impact of value of any one conservative choice, but they clearly impact positive word of mouth, Good Will, sales and long term brand strength.

At the end of the day you can't really design a whole product on just number crunching, and need to make some choices not supported by hard numbers. Sometimes it works (Wii) and sometimes it doesn't (Vita), but there's no formula into which one can plug all the numbers and get a guaranteed success with maximum returns.
 
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