Can they make back a multi billion dollar investment in Nintendo games a few bucks at a time? It's not like there aren't a million other 99 cent games to play on mobile and tablet already. I imagine there are many youngsters out there there now that aren't tied to Nintendo either as they haven't grown up with their games, like the types of kids that grew up only with only phones and tablets. For them the pull of Mario and Zelda won't be there because Nintendo was absent on their platform of choice. For a mobile platform owner, I don't quite see how Nintendo makes sense as a billion dollar investment.
Nintendo GOing Forward.
- Thread starter Wynix
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Can they make back a multi billion dollar investment in Nintendo games a few bucks at a time? It's not like there aren't a million other 99 cent games to play on mobile and tablet already. I imagine there are many youngsters out there there now that aren't tied to Nintendo either as they haven't grown up with their games, like the types of kids that grew up only with only phones and tablets. For them the pull of Mario and Zelda won't be there because Nintendo was absent on their platform of choice. For a mobile platform owner, I don't quite see how Nintendo makes sense as a billion dollar investment.
I think you underrate the value of the games themselves. Not all 99c games are equal. I'm confident Nintendo could sell a lot of their franchises in large numbers on mobile because the games/IP have intrinsic value. I wouldn't say they're billion dollar offerings, but I wouldn't demote Nintendo to 'just another one buck app factory' either.
A good Pokemon game with in-app purchases is probably worth at least $1 billion IMO.
A good Pokemon game with in-app purchases is probably worth at least $1 billion IMO.
In addition to this, I recently heard in the grapevine that Nintendo has spent 100 million dollars in something we don't know about yet.
$100M is petty cash for Apple, pretty substantial chunk of change for Nintendo.
Any new hardware they're developing themselves is basically a Stupid Idea, unless it's a controller shell for iOS devices. THAT is what they should be doing, they have the expertise to develop a kickass, ergonomic iphone controller that would absolutely kick the shit out of the pathetic other iOS controllers released so far, and they have the IP to make great new games running on the device. An iPhone5S has similar, if not higher performance than the Wuu - at least in CPU performance - although less free RAM, if that really matters that much. Add in Apple TV/Airplay support...done.
Any new hardware they're developing themselves is basically a Stupid Idea, unless it's a controller shell for iOS devices. THAT is what they should be doing, they have the expertise to develop a kickass, ergonomic iphone controller that would absolutely kick the shit out of the pathetic other iOS controllers released so far, and they have the IP to make great new games running on the device. An iPhone5S has similar, if not higher performance than the Wuu - at least in CPU performance - although less free RAM, if that really matters that much. Add in Apple TV/Airplay support...done.
Why would they need to make another new PORTABLE system? The 3DS is selling well already, so no imminent need to replace it. It's their stationary console that's doing shit.
In a longer perspective though; 3DS sales are declining. PS Vita sales are languishing still. At this stage, it's far from certain another nintendo portable would sell well. In fact, 3DS itself sold terribly until nintendo cut price so much that they started losing money on each sale (and this despite the awful, AWFUL el-cheapo hardware inside the 3DS.)
A new portable console would start with zero available software, high price, and would most certainly compare poorly to even today's smartphones, much less those that will be available when this thing is unveiled.
I've no doubt nintendo will still persist in making their own proprietary system - because that's what they do over there - but it would be a mistake. Their share of the market can ONLY go down from here on out as long as they refuse to get on with the times. It's like fucking Hiroshi Yamaushi is still chairman of the board, controlling it like some mummy from beyond the grave...
In a longer perspective though; 3DS sales are declining. PS Vita sales are languishing still. At this stage, it's far from certain another nintendo portable would sell well. In fact, 3DS itself sold terribly until nintendo cut price so much that they started losing money on each sale (and this despite the awful, AWFUL el-cheapo hardware inside the 3DS.)
A new portable console would start with zero available software, high price, and would most certainly compare poorly to even today's smartphones, much less those that will be available when this thing is unveiled.
I've no doubt nintendo will still persist in making their own proprietary system - because that's what they do over there - but it would be a mistake. Their share of the market can ONLY go down from here on out as long as they refuse to get on with the times. It's like fucking Hiroshi Yamaushi is still chairman of the board, controlling it like some mummy from beyond the grave...
D
Deleted member 13524
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I wouldn't say the Vita is that much uncomfortable right now.
Its success in Japan is unquestionable both in hardware and software sales, and there's a lot of support for western Indie games.
It seems that Sony is making quite an effort in localizing the best and most popular JRPG/visual novel hybrids for the West, so Vita players have JRPGs, Indies for standalone Vita. Then they'll have PS4 remote play for AAA games and later they'll have Playstation Now (for people with a very fast Internet connection, at least).
I finally think that Sony finally has a plan for keeping the Vita alive and healthy, unlike the 3DS which Nintendo seems willing to just milk the platform while it makes money and then let it slowly rot for years while people wait for a late and underperforming successor (like they did with the Wii).
Its success in Japan is unquestionable both in hardware and software sales, and there's a lot of support for western Indie games.
It seems that Sony is making quite an effort in localizing the best and most popular JRPG/visual novel hybrids for the West, so Vita players have JRPGs, Indies for standalone Vita. Then they'll have PS4 remote play for AAA games and later they'll have Playstation Now (for people with a very fast Internet connection, at least).
I finally think that Sony finally has a plan for keeping the Vita alive and healthy, unlike the 3DS which Nintendo seems willing to just milk the platform while it makes money and then let it slowly rot for years while people wait for a late and underperforming successor (like they did with the Wii).
Last I heard about vita sales was that they impressed absolutely no-one. I think it's safe to say Sony won't be making any more proprietary portable consoles; after this round is done in a number of years, they'll rely on smartphones and tablets instead, quite possibly with a primary focus on their own line of hardware (but still retaining general android compatibility; possibly iOS as well one might speculate.)
Sure Nintendo can hoodwink kiddies and parents with overpriced portable devices (overpriced for what they are relative to other mobile devices).
But they will never see the booming sales they used to have. Even in Japan, smart phone penetration of iOS and Android is climbing.
Now, parents give their kids smart phones. Even the kids will realize the convenience of not carrying additional devices.
But they will never see the booming sales they used to have. Even in Japan, smart phone penetration of iOS and Android is climbing.
Now, parents give their kids smart phones. Even the kids will realize the convenience of not carrying additional devices.
The one thing I hear from my friends is that the Nintendo hardware is built like a tank. So they buy them a 3ds and let them play with it all the time and then while they might have an ipad or android tablet they let their kids play with , they only allow tha twhen a parent is around.
I think Nintendo has another handheld generation maybe even 2.
I still prefer a dedicated gaming device on the go because of battery life. Yes my surface gets 4 hours and my gfs ipad mini gets about 9 hours but gaming really kills both of them while my 3ds xl gets about 5 hours on its own.
Sell a new handheld, sell a home console that is a kind of server to enhance the game and let it be played on TV.
It's quite similar to what Nintendo already has, you'd get higher quality graphics and a game server for multiplayer, plus a way to play on TV (even split screen if you prefer it over playing on your handheld), it would also provide asymmetric gameplay like the WiiU...
Ideally all games would have to run on the home & handheld console.
(It would work exclusively with the handheld, no pad...)
Just an idea.
It's quite similar to what Nintendo already has, you'd get higher quality graphics and a game server for multiplayer, plus a way to play on TV (even split screen if you prefer it over playing on your handheld), it would also provide asymmetric gameplay like the WiiU...
Ideally all games would have to run on the home & handheld console.
(It would work exclusively with the handheld, no pad...)
Just an idea.
That's probably exactly what Nintendo's going to do, seeing as they've stated the next console system of theirs will run the same games on both portable and home versions of the console, but that doesn't mean their system will be a success. They're going to screw themselves again if they go for hardware power disproportionality compared to competitors (because 3rd parties don't want to have to downport games to a nintendo console), and they'll get doubly screwed if they also misalign their hardware replacement cycle compared to current systems.
Nintendo is in the really unenviable position of only having bad options available to it. Hang in there with a millstone of a console around their neck (wuu) and wait out the current cycle - which is gonna lose them absolutely shitloads of money - or go early console replacement, leaving wuu owners high and dry as well as unsynching the generation shift severely. That wouldn't have been a problem if nintendo had been top dog. Nintendo did pretty good during the late NES era while the Megadrive was out already, but today... Ugh.
Assuming Nintendo hurries out a new system in ~2.5 years' time, what will it be - yet another short shelf-life for "wii-three" to get back into synch with the main brands, or a longer, meaning 3rd parties will drop "wii-three" support pretty much as soon as PS5/nextagainbox launches. Double-ugh!
Nintendo is in the really unenviable position of only having bad options available to it. Hang in there with a millstone of a console around their neck (wuu) and wait out the current cycle - which is gonna lose them absolutely shitloads of money - or go early console replacement, leaving wuu owners high and dry as well as unsynching the generation shift severely. That wouldn't have been a problem if nintendo had been top dog. Nintendo did pretty good during the late NES era while the Megadrive was out already, but today... Ugh.
Assuming Nintendo hurries out a new system in ~2.5 years' time, what will it be - yet another short shelf-life for "wii-three" to get back into synch with the main brands, or a longer, meaning 3rd parties will drop "wii-three" support pretty much as soon as PS5/nextagainbox launches. Double-ugh!
Sony is selling a ton of PS4s but losing money.
MS is retrenching on Kinect.
The next gen consoles have started out well but I really wonder if they're going to be in a hurry to push out new consoles any time soon.
Nintendo has no other business so they have to try something. Now that motion is passé and the tablet controller didn't catch on, what is the next control scheme gimmick?
In a couple of years, we'll have VR headsets, probably as an accessory.
I don't think more powerful hardware alone is going to save Nintendo.
They could milk the back catalog, port it to more popular devices and the current management can live out the rest of their lives on that money.
But the chance to dominate and assure success 50 or 100 years out?
MS is retrenching on Kinect.
The next gen consoles have started out well but I really wonder if they're going to be in a hurry to push out new consoles any time soon.
Nintendo has no other business so they have to try something. Now that motion is passé and the tablet controller didn't catch on, what is the next control scheme gimmick?
In a couple of years, we'll have VR headsets, probably as an accessory.
I don't think more powerful hardware alone is going to save Nintendo.
They could milk the back catalog, port it to more popular devices and the current management can live out the rest of their lives on that money.
But the chance to dominate and assure success 50 or 100 years out?
D
Deleted member 11852
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Sony comprises a lot of divisions; Sony's gaming division would have been profitable had it not been for the crazy costs with launching a console (PS4).
Wuu Premium EOL'd in Japan: "It's dead, Jim."
I am basing this on a piece of information from the gaf hardware thread that was locked months ago, there was a user there who had said that Nintendo had made a deal with an American chip maker to produce their CPU/GPU for their next hardware. This would be around the end of last year, which lines up with the timeline.
I am also basing this on the assumption that Nintendo's handheld and console will be scaled hardware in the same family, that Wii U backwards compatibility is going to continue to be a goal and that Nintendo will release their new hardware in late 2016 (handheld) and 2017 for console.
I think Nintendo's partner is pretty obviously AMD, they offer GPU compatibility with previous consoles, they have been great with pricing and Nintendo has a long history with them. I think Wii U's CPU might come along as a co processor for handling OS and BC, but will not be used for future software. I think what they could do that would be even cooler is to push all of the Wii U architecture into the gamepad and run it reverse to the TV, but could be costly / impossible.
I look at AMD's APU line and their 2016 K12 announcements and see handheld gaming at it's best, Nintendo might even decide to go with ARM K12s here as they will offer everything Nintendo needs.
What I think we will see from the specs is fairly basic:
Handheld 2016 is 20nm for AMD...
CPU: 2 or 4 "cheetah" ARM cores 800mhz to 1.2GHz
GPU: 2 CUs @ 500 Mhz 128 GFLOPs (GCN2)
RAM: 2GB
Screen: 480P to 540P resolution
Price: $169-199
A single chip solution will drive price far down, especially overtime. 3DS sales stalled but the price of the hardware is still high, especially outside of 2DS, this I argue is a large reason why 3DS will simply not break 100m, and can be avoided in future hardware by allowing the price to line up with DS. This also would thanks to in part resolution and in part, improved GPU, give a very close/better performance over Wii U, in a handheld that should be able to sip less energy than the current 3DS.
Console 2017 (still likely 20nm though 16nm and 14nm is possible from AMD at this point)
CPU: 8 Cheetah cores @ 2+ GHz
GPU: 16 CUs @ 1+ GHz (GCN2) (2TFLOPs or more)
RAM: 8GB DDR4
Storage: 64GB /w external storage available
Price: $199 to 299
A single chip solution again will drive the price down, a co processor espresso would only cost a few dollars a sku and would offer benefits for BC, especially to their VC. However since they will likely use a gamepad still, I imagine they could potentially shrink the Wii U down enough to fit inside the controller for this next console all together. This would be ideal as while it would add cost to the unit, it would insure BC and give Wii U life going forward. However this might be impossible though a cool idea imo.
These 2 devices would run the same software at different settings, Nintendo would also only have 1 dev kit running at different speeds depending on the mode and allow developers to cash in on both platform's customers with a single product. Nintendo themselves would create some titles that would work on both platforms and some that are sister titles, like smash for 3DS/U but with the same code, with graphical settings changed. They would also have some games that are purely exclusive to one device. (think OoT/Majora's Mask, or Galaxy 1/2)
They should also try to create studios/buy them, in the west and allow NoA to manage those teams, while also expanding their 2nd parties/3rd party partners with first party IP creations.
I don't think anything I said is really far fetched, it requires will that Nintendo might not have, but I still would like to see this future and I don't really see a problem with the console specs for the main core, but it is completely adjustable, meaning you could put as many CUs as you want in there, I originally thought 20 was more likely, but I think the minimum here is 16, it is still a large increase over XB1 and far superior to the "increase" Wii U brought over last gen consoles. This is a speculation thread though, so feel free to come up with your own.
I avoided talking too much about where Nintendo currently is, they have a lot of problems with their Wii U, but the biggest is that Nintendo's software trickles out because they simply can't push 2 platforms at once, this is the one place where they have already committed to solve in the future with a single architecture and Iwata is on record saying that if customers only buy one, they will move to a single platform in the future (gen after next I imagine) so while I think Nintendo's Wii U won't recover nearly enough to make it a profit, I also think that they are learning from this failure and planning their next line better.
They could simply upscale the Wii U and release a handheld that is basically a Wii U in the future, and this would be a fast track to a more stable future, but I really believe AMD APUs in the long run offer more to Nintendo and the gamepad housing a Wii U, is a perfect solution to their BC needs.
I am also basing this on the assumption that Nintendo's handheld and console will be scaled hardware in the same family, that Wii U backwards compatibility is going to continue to be a goal and that Nintendo will release their new hardware in late 2016 (handheld) and 2017 for console.
I think Nintendo's partner is pretty obviously AMD, they offer GPU compatibility with previous consoles, they have been great with pricing and Nintendo has a long history with them. I think Wii U's CPU might come along as a co processor for handling OS and BC, but will not be used for future software. I think what they could do that would be even cooler is to push all of the Wii U architecture into the gamepad and run it reverse to the TV, but could be costly / impossible.
I look at AMD's APU line and their 2016 K12 announcements and see handheld gaming at it's best, Nintendo might even decide to go with ARM K12s here as they will offer everything Nintendo needs.
What I think we will see from the specs is fairly basic:
Handheld 2016 is 20nm for AMD...
CPU: 2 or 4 "cheetah" ARM cores 800mhz to 1.2GHz
GPU: 2 CUs @ 500 Mhz 128 GFLOPs (GCN2)
RAM: 2GB
Screen: 480P to 540P resolution
Price: $169-199
A single chip solution will drive price far down, especially overtime. 3DS sales stalled but the price of the hardware is still high, especially outside of 2DS, this I argue is a large reason why 3DS will simply not break 100m, and can be avoided in future hardware by allowing the price to line up with DS. This also would thanks to in part resolution and in part, improved GPU, give a very close/better performance over Wii U, in a handheld that should be able to sip less energy than the current 3DS.
Console 2017 (still likely 20nm though 16nm and 14nm is possible from AMD at this point)
CPU: 8 Cheetah cores @ 2+ GHz
GPU: 16 CUs @ 1+ GHz (GCN2) (2TFLOPs or more)
RAM: 8GB DDR4
Storage: 64GB /w external storage available
Price: $199 to 299
A single chip solution again will drive the price down, a co processor espresso would only cost a few dollars a sku and would offer benefits for BC, especially to their VC. However since they will likely use a gamepad still, I imagine they could potentially shrink the Wii U down enough to fit inside the controller for this next console all together. This would be ideal as while it would add cost to the unit, it would insure BC and give Wii U life going forward. However this might be impossible though a cool idea imo.
These 2 devices would run the same software at different settings, Nintendo would also only have 1 dev kit running at different speeds depending on the mode and allow developers to cash in on both platform's customers with a single product. Nintendo themselves would create some titles that would work on both platforms and some that are sister titles, like smash for 3DS/U but with the same code, with graphical settings changed. They would also have some games that are purely exclusive to one device. (think OoT/Majora's Mask, or Galaxy 1/2)
They should also try to create studios/buy them, in the west and allow NoA to manage those teams, while also expanding their 2nd parties/3rd party partners with first party IP creations.
I don't think anything I said is really far fetched, it requires will that Nintendo might not have, but I still would like to see this future and I don't really see a problem with the console specs for the main core, but it is completely adjustable, meaning you could put as many CUs as you want in there, I originally thought 20 was more likely, but I think the minimum here is 16, it is still a large increase over XB1 and far superior to the "increase" Wii U brought over last gen consoles. This is a speculation thread though, so feel free to come up with your own.
I avoided talking too much about where Nintendo currently is, they have a lot of problems with their Wii U, but the biggest is that Nintendo's software trickles out because they simply can't push 2 platforms at once, this is the one place where they have already committed to solve in the future with a single architecture and Iwata is on record saying that if customers only buy one, they will move to a single platform in the future (gen after next I imagine) so while I think Nintendo's Wii U won't recover nearly enough to make it a profit, I also think that they are learning from this failure and planning their next line better.
They could simply upscale the Wii U and release a handheld that is basically a Wii U in the future, and this would be a fast track to a more stable future, but I really believe AMD APUs in the long run offer more to Nintendo and the gamepad housing a Wii U, is a perfect solution to their BC needs.
D
Deleted member 13524
Guest
That sounds really anemic for 2016. The Shield 2 is coming in 2014 with over twice the GPU processing power, probably with a 1080p screen too.
Those specs are the technical equivalent of Nintendo launching a handheld right now that managed to be a lot weaker than the Vita.
Oh wait, this is Nintendo. Move along.
While that does sound like a great concept, not everything is perfectly scalable as long as you're using the same architecture/instructions.
For example, A.I. complexity, number of NPCs and number of players in MP mode can't be easily scaled up and down if you have a system that is much weaker than the other in processing capabilities and memory amount. Developers would have to scale some settings back in order to comply with the weaker console and that would mean hell in the inevitable comparisons with the other consoles.
I recently got a wii u and as I said in another post , the controller is awesome.
So instead of a handheld and a home console , why not combine the two.
Put an amd apu inside the game controller with 8 gigs of ram . Then make a console based on a stronger APU from amd in a shell smaller than the wii/wii u.
That way a game like Mario kart everyone can bring their controller and each person can link up to the main console and play.
So instead of a handheld and a home console , why not combine the two.
Put an amd apu inside the game controller with 8 gigs of ram . Then make a console based on a stronger APU from amd in a shell smaller than the wii/wii u.
That way a game like Mario kart everyone can bring their controller and each person can link up to the main console and play.
I quickly glanced at the bench of that short review and honestly I see few reasons for Nintendo to go with X86 CPU.
ARM cpu are closing in and AMD unlike Intel has no process advantage to sustain its lead.
ARM cpu are closing in and AMD unlike Intel has no process advantage to sustain its lead.
