Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [post GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Proelite, Mar 16, 2020.

  1. blakjedi

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    DirectStorage is designed for SSD... but it is a direct to GPU solution... thus "Direct" "Storage".Its a development that comes from AMD's Solid State Graphics tech.

     
    #1881 blakjedi, Apr 5, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
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  2. disco_

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    These aren't official specs. They're copied straight from 5700 for ps5 and both xsx/ps5 still have info from various reddit/pastebin leaks.
     
  3. Scott_Arm

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    That is not how it's described.

    DirectStorage – DirectStorage is an all new I/O system designed specifically for gaming to unleash the full performance of the SSD and hardware decompression. It is one of the components that comprise the Xbox Velocity Architecture. Modern games perform asset streaming in the background to continuously load the next parts of the world while you play, and DirectStorage can reduce the CPU overhead for these I/O operations from multiple cores to taking just a small fraction of a single core; thereby freeing considerable CPU power for the game to spend on areas like better physics or more NPCs in a scene. This newest member of the DirectX family is being introduced with Xbox Series X and we plan to bring it to Windows as well.
     
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  4. RobertR1

    RobertR1 Pro
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    If someone wants more knowledge on electro migration being described above, see here:

     
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  5. Silent_Buddha

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    If that were the case then PS4-P and XBO-X would garner the majority of sales over their base counterparts, but that isn't the case. The XBO-X is over 300% more performant than the XBO-S and generally about 100 USD more and the XBO-S sells significantly more units.

    Price is important to the majority of console buyers. It's also one of the reasons why the majority of console buyers are unlikely to ever buy a new gaming PC.

    Regards,
    SB
     
    #1885 Silent_Buddha, Apr 5, 2020
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  6. Silent_Buddha

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    That's just speculation on what they think MS are doing. What MS are doing might be related to that with improvements for the console space...or it might not be. We don't have enough details to make any sort of call on it at the moment.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  7. Rockster

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    Shift, it's not an interrogation or attack, and not expecting anyone here to have the answer. Please accept my apologies if I came across that way, or the need to defend Sony or respond at all. At least not on my account. I just happen to believe asking about a components base clock, when it's certainly known by the manufacture is a fair and legitimate question. I know I wouldn't feel good about buying a GPU with an advertised clock of 2GHz, but under load it was designed to throttle down to 1GHz without any disclosure of that information. Not saying that's the case here, but just providing as an example for the point of view. No one needs to agree with it. And I'm not asking for some esoteric research lab data. Every PS5 is going to ship with the exact same clock setting presets to use at various activity monitor levels. It's a simple curve with a top end frequency which can be maintained all the way up to a certain activity level, through a range, down to a bottom end frequency at the max possible activity level. It's predefined, known, and baked into every PS5. And I know we aren't going to get that from Sony unfortunately, but guessing it will get leaked at some point.

    The argument I'm hearing is that, if they released that information, there would be no context to align actual game loads to that activity level curve. That perhaps worst case game loads would never reach those levels, and so the fact that those settings exist at all are meaningless. And I think that's the thrust of the point Cerny is trying to make when he says he believes the system will run near those max clocks most of the time, which I agree with if you were to profile a broad range of titles. But we know something like God of War for instance can push a PS4 Pro to something like 170+ watts, which is right at the limits of system TDP. So while an outlier, getting close is definitely possible. And as such, worth understanding how it's configured to run in such conditions. Just my opinion of course. I won't say anything more on it. Hoping you won't judge me to harshly in the future for having that perspective.

    Thanks for all your contributions here, they are most appreciated. Respectfully.
     
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  8. Scott_Arm

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    I think they're confusing a unique issue in the PC space and projecting it onto console. My understanding with those Pro Radeon gpus is that they have an SSD on the graphics card so that it can read from the SSD directly into VRAM, bypassing main RAM and copying data over the pcie bus. Console doesn't need that, because there's one pool of memory. DirectStorage looks to be about latency and cpu overhead, not reading directly into GPU cache, which would be a bad idea anyway.
     
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  9. blakjedi

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    I guess we will have to see. The implementation of the AMD SSG looks to be exactly the same as MS's stated 100GB SSD mapping direct to GPU implementation.
     
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  10. blakjedi

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    I'm confused. MS said their implementation has this feature. Regardless of its origin, the 100GB to GPU feature is central to their XVA architecture.
     
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  11. RobertR1

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    the variable clock speeds are concerning because how often they’re often bullshit hypotheticals on PC. This being PC parts from the same company, you can understand the skepticism. To me, Most of cerny’s explanations have the same tone as this guy:



    Sounds great but not reality.
     
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  12. Scott_Arm

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    I think you are correct. Reading up more on Radeon SSG it sounds like the GPU can read straight from SSD into cache. Doesn’t need to copy to VRAM first. I’m curious how much lower the latency is than a typical request that would go through the cpu.
     
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  13. SimBy

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    PBO has nothing to do with this and is not even used in consoles. 3.5GHz clock speed is also far from BS hypothetical on PC, it's very much a reality.
     
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  14. RobertR1

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    The concepts of variable clock speeds using a power budget absolutely applies. Basically it allows a lot of marketing BS to creep in as we have seen repeatedly and that video being a shining beacon of it.

    Oh and I expect intel to do the same going forward with their TVB3 trash.
     
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  15. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    In this instance AMD consider the VRAM to be cache, hence the HBCC moniker.

    Edit: See slides 7+8 in this deck: https://www.hotchips.org/wp-content...b/HC29.21.120-Radeon-Vega10-Mantor-AMD-f1.pdf
     
    #1895 mrcorbo, Apr 5, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
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  16. Metal_Spirit

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    Assuming Stream is a good market representation, iIf 1/3 of the steam costumers are in China, ignoring them would also be disregarding 1/3 of the PC potencial market. Would that be a good thing, specially if we consider that a big part of the remaining market will also be underpowered?

    Just questioning... Not trying to make claims!
     
  17. Shifty Geezer

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    You can broadly estimate a potential hardware base for a given GPU spec. Pick your GPU, find the proportion of users with that GPU or better (bit of faf) and multiply that by active accounts (about 100 million). That's quite convenient at the moment, roughly x% of hardware will be x million users. So 6 million 8 core CPUs. 48 million 4 core CPUs. Well over 40 million GPUs of1050 spec.

    I guess the overview of the top-end performance is that current consoles represent a significantly larger size of 'performant' hardware than PC, with PC having a more powerful top end that's only a few million strong.
     
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  18. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    What is difficult to factor in is how many GPUs have been bought not for gaming but for the compute capability. CSS eats compute for breakfast so designers and editors have machines with gaming GPUs, as do bit miners, as do server farms. I think there remains a degree of wetting your finger and sticking it in the air.
     
  19. PSman1700

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    Kinda shocking that so many would be on lower then hd7850, tablet cpu’s. Badically 2006 to 2012 mid end hardware. Il go with the poster that once told me steam surveys cant be trusted.
     
  20. Shifty Geezer

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    How many of those are running Steam on their workstations though? If they're running Steam, one kinda assumes they are playing games on those PCs too.
     
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