Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [post GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Proelite, Mar 16, 2020.

  1. psorcerer

    Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2004
    Messages:
    732
    Likes Received:
    134
    It was a point made to downplay the SSD speed difference.
    I'm sure if it was laid out in a less flamey way it would get better. But...
     
    egoless likes this.
  2. Scott_Arm

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    14,073
    Likes Received:
    5,301
    No, I have a pretty clear understanding of what he wrote. If people want to misrepresent it for fanboy warring, they can do that, but I'm not going to participate. I'm not sure what other contexts there are besides what he wrote, and what people are misrepresenting it as.
     
  3. psorcerer

    Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2004
    Messages:
    732
    Likes Received:
    134
    What other examples of a workloads that will draw comparable amounts of power from CPU you have in mind?

    It's all in Turing whitepaper. https://www.nvidia.com/content/dam/...ure/NVIDIA-Turing-Architecture-Whitepaper.pdf
    Page 13, figure 5
     
  4. Scott_Arm

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    14,073
    Likes Received:
    5,301
    There is nothing "flamey" about what he wrote. The wccftech headline is complete bullshit. I happen to think he's probably wrong and the procedural work will be handled up front and put onto ssd. I think the reason it was done in memory was because of the hdd performance. With a fast ssd they can probably make big gains up front and save a good chunk of the computing power. It's a good topic for discussion.

    Edit: I do think there's a larger industry discussion to be had about the cost of games. Gamers are expecting a lot, but without having the cost of games go up, I'm not sure how many development studios are actually financially equipped to handle it. How many flops can Ubisoft handle if the cost of game dev goes 25% or 50% to meet consumer expectations for this new hardware.
     
    #1104 Scott_Arm, Mar 25, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
    egoless, Tsaki and BRiT like this.
  5. DavidGraham

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,254
    Likes Received:
    3,460
    Yes I know, I was just superficially comparing the TF numbers, but my point still stands that other parameters come into the picture besides the pure TF number. There is the memory bandwidth like I mentioned, the fact Turing TF are higher than Navi (owing to the concurrent INT/FP execution, and better geometry units ..etc), also separate Tensor units if that ever took off on consoles.

    NVIDIA did state that INT/FP execution allows them to harness 30% more performance as game codes contain 3 INT instructions every 10 instructions.

    https://devblogs.nvidia.com/nvidia-turing-architecture-in-depth/

    [​IMG]



    NVIDIA also attributes superior RT performance to that capability alongside their RT cores.

    [​IMG]

    https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/geforce-gtx-dxr-ray-tracing-available-now/
     
    PSman1700 and Scott_Arm like this.
  6. anexanhume

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,916
    Likes Received:
    1,251
    To my knowledge, they do not. LG does 40Hz. Vizio is worse at 48. Not sure where Samsung is at on their 2.0 sets.
     
    jlippo, BRiT and Scott_Arm like this.
  7. psorcerer

    Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2004
    Messages:
    732
    Likes Received:
    134
    +1 here.

    It was rarely done in memory. Only for the most random stuff.
    For example all the HZD GPU generated foliage was baked into the actual level at the build time, AFAIK.
    It obviously baked much less stuff than the final objects on screen had though. So essentially it's just another way of "compressing" assets.
     
  8. Love_In_Rio

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,577
    Likes Received:
    193
    Not used at all, nowadays AVX 256 is not normally used in games.
     
  9. Aenima

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2010
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    7
    To my knowledge, AVX 256 is not supported on Jaguar cores. Maybe with Zen 2 based CPUs in the new consoles, we will see more AVX 256 based code in games.
     
  10. anexanhume

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,916
    Likes Received:
    1,251
    Correct. Jaguar is only AVX1. Zen added AVX2, but took two cycles. Zen 2 supports single-cycle AVX2.
     
  11. Dictator

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    807
    THank you for understanding what I meant. And thank you for reasonably disagreeing with me :)

    And by procedural, I do not necessarily mean No Man Sky generated environments. I mean things like non bespoke textures for each and every object. So lower res base materials and swappable colours and a decal, trim system, and tilable detail textures to flesh out details. Or stampable decals to insert variation like idtech 7 now does - or assets with instanced bases and then mutable variations. Anything which reuses art instead of baking out 4K textures for each individual asset and drawing from the disk. Or even worse, something like megatexture.

    There is a large production difference for time (and even detail advantages) by using sharable materials and texture sets, instead of completely bespoke textures for each object.

    As I see it, an open world game design would not want to have many of its assets made to be 100% unique and therefore require lots of disk and ram space, when reused and shared materials with a proper decal system or wear system ontop would cut down required RAM amounts, disk space, AND production time.
     
    #1111 Dictator, Mar 25, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
    RagnarokFF, tinokun, turkey and 8 others like this.
  12. Metal_Spirit

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2007
    Messages:
    545
    Likes Received:
    335
    How will other examples validate or invalidate that one?
     
  13. shiznit

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    84
    Location:
    Oblast of Columbia
    When the vast majority of the PC install base supports AVX we should see broader support. Right now even requiring SSE leads to support issues.
     
  14. RobertR1

    RobertR1 Pro
    Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2005
    Messages:
    5,725
    Likes Received:
    901
    AVX has been around since Sandy Bridge and is used in PC games already. It's not a new thing.
     
  15. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    3,888
    Likes Received:
    2,570
    Nope. In the case of the PS5 they only move when they have to.
     
  16. manux

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Messages:
    1,940
    Likes Received:
    809
    Location:
    Earth
    The very wide version is fairly new thing and power hungry.
     
  17. KeanuReeves

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2017
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    20
    There are a lot of assumptions here. You are assuming that they(Sony) had "trouble locking" the frequency when in reality what Mark Cerny said they had trouble with was none other than fan noise and by extension inconsistent power draw. This solution was done to fix those problems, not to "reach" a frequency number. That is unless you have intimate knowledge of their internal thought process. Variable clock/Continuous boost was enabled for a reason, true. But the reason was to keep fan noise down.
     
  18. chris1515

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2005
    Messages:
    4,505
    Likes Received:
    3,332
    Location:
    Barcelona Spain
    And it is a good reason because my PS4 Pro is too loud.
     
    KeanuReeves likes this.
  19. RobertR1

    RobertR1 Pro
    Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2005
    Messages:
    5,725
    Likes Received:
    901
    AVX512 doesn't exist on mainstream CPU's.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...