Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [post GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Proelite, Mar 16, 2020.

  1. Xbat

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    1,537
    Likes Received:
    1,160
    Location:
    A farm in the middle of nowhere
    It's not boost clocks and anyone that thinks Sony just quickly did this is crazy. This was the design from the beginning as can be seen by the crazy dev kits.
     
    DSoup likes this.
  2. PSman1700

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2019
    Messages:
    3,240
    Likes Received:
    1,250
    Yes they were already at high clocks last year atleast.
     
  3. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
    Legend Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2014
    Messages:
    11,669
    Likes Received:
    12,655
    Location:
    The North
    This is the right answer of course. (a bit OT since we're not talking technical here though).
    a) The games you want to play
    b) how you want to play them
    c) how much it will cost you

    should be the largest factors in determine your purchasing behaviour.
    Everything we talk about in the tech side of things ranging from audio to teraflops all belong in B mainly, I guess online is a factor as well.
    Costs are another discussion point
    and of course games, which could be 3P or 1P
    If you love 3P titles and want the best 3P experience, then the talk on TF does make a lot more sense.
    Platform options like cross save or online streaming make more sense.
    etc etc.

    some people demand the absolute best, others won't. PS5 will be fine because it's likely the latter. But this thread is a shop talk thread. It may not influence peoples purchasing decisions at all. Some people see shop talk as purely a hobby because they seek to understand how things work.
     
  4. Dictator

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    1,036
    So I posted this on ResetERA a few times, but not here. The whole idea is that, like Cerny described in a kind of round about way, is that Devs are going to choose a Mode, like GPU or CPU Mode. In the Former for example, the GPU has Power priority and the CPU goes below that maximum clock of 3.5 GHz. This ensures a more stable GPU clock. The other way around then in CPU Mode.
    The extent to which the clocks Fall out for the different priorities remain to be clarified.
    This is what has been Heard from people that have the machine.
    I think it will make sense that a lot of cross gen games coming from Jag will under utilise the Zen CPU anyway, so GPU Mode makes sense for them. Same for All those games that use unfixed resolutions with fine grain dynamic resolution. But I am not sure what happens if you have a GPU and CPU intensive target.
    I expect bandwidth to be very important in RT Performance, just like it is on PC.
     
    #544 Dictator, Mar 20, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
  5. Jubei

    Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    92
    What would be the point of comparing components available on the shelves today against a console coming out late 2020? Not to mention you need to pay 60 dollars a year to be able to play online. So the Xbox will be somewhere between 500-600 upfront but over its lifetime you will have paid something like a 1000 dollars.

    I think PC will always be more expensive but its also a computer, not just a gaming device. But by late 2020/early 2021, we are talking about Zen 3 and Ampere. 1600 dollars will blow away the XSX and PS5 by then
     
    egoless, xpea and disco_ like this.
  6. mpg1

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2015
    Messages:
    2,073
    Likes Received:
    1,706
    From a purely cynical perspective....Sony is able to market max potential and it's not like you are ever going to know what it is actually running at...unless someone hacks it...

    It's going to be interesting to see what the PSU wattage is for each of these systems.
     
    PSman1700, VitaminB6 and Proelite like this.
  7. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
    Legend Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2014
    Messages:
    11,669
    Likes Received:
    12,655
    Location:
    The North
    I agree that a PC is also a computer and it can do more. But most people don't need a 1600+ PC to do their work unless you're doing professional work. So I would disagree with that sentiment, it's mainly a gaming device for most folks.
    It will come down to cost. If PC was trivially cheaper and had more power, no one would buy a console.
     
    PSman1700 likes this.
  8. Proelite

    Veteran Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    865
    Location:
    Redmond
    Do you think there are any new features in RDNA2 like DCC in GCN that mitigates the bandwidth requirements of the GPU?
     
  9. VitaminB6

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    217
    I've started to do some reading about ML but I still have a long ways to go to have a better understating of it. Wondering if someone with more knowledge on the subject could chime in and comment on how big of a factor they think it will be in upcoming consoles. I know MS has been doing some work with a type of upscaling using ML and it looked pretty exciting to be honest. Also curious if some of the features talked about in the XBSX such as 8-bit and 4-bit integer positions will be available for Sony as well? I know they were already using RPM last gen so it seems reasonable to assume they would've opted for this as well. Really hoping both MS and Sony employ some type of upscaling on the majority of games instead of pushing more pixels.
     
  10. BRiT

    BRiT (>• •)>⌐■-■ (⌐■-■)
    Moderator Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    17,017
    Likes Received:
    17,039
    I still find this off the mark. No one who's considering PC gaming vs Console gaming should ever be paying full retail price for the Online aspects of PS+ or XboxLive. The price is far closer to $40 - $45. You also get free games for that cost, anywhere from 2 (Plus) to 4 (Gold) games a month for that cost.
     
    AzBat and temesgen like this.
  11. Jubei

    Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    92
    People arent going to spend 1600 dollars on a PC just to use word or excel but its easier to justify spending 1600 dollars on your gaming hobby when the device you buy can also do other things like Plex, edit homevideos and work etc

    But as i said, by late 2020 the XSX will be mid range specs so nobody has to spend 1600 dollars to get the same performance anyway.
     
    egoless likes this.
  12. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
    Legend Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2014
    Messages:
    11,669
    Likes Received:
    12,655
    Location:
    The North
    Fair enough, for some people it's easy to justify I guess.
    I'm not sure either console will be considered _mid range_ by the time they release though.
     
  13. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    9,255
    Likes Received:
    3,204
    Location:
    Finland
    The PC suggestion included Game Pass, surely that would be included on Xbox too which makes the online play free (since Game pass time = live time)
    You're also over-estimating the gains on PC side. Zen 3 will no doubt be faster, yes, but you won't match 8-core Zen 2 for half the price or anything like that. Same for GPU, of course you will get more performance for less money, but realistically you could probably expect something like 2080S/XSX performance from the 2070S or if you're lucky 2070 price bracket

    ( fixed typo pay > play)
     
    #553 Kaotik, Mar 20, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
    PSman1700 and BRiT like this.
  14. Jubei

    Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    92
    You can find anything cheaper if you look around or wait for the right time. That doesnt mean the official price is 40 dollars. You get free games on the Epic store, without paying anything. And the games you bought wont be behind a paywall in case you want to play online with your friends. And you can stream Netflix with only a Netflix subscription and an internet connection, no paying for Windows Gold

    PS plus and Xbox live should be viewed as something negative rather than positive IMO
     
    egoless likes this.
  15. Jubei

    Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    92
    Why would you need to match it for half the price? The 3700x already clocks higher than the PS5/XSX and will get a significant discount when Zen 3 is out on the market. The point was that 1600 dollars in 2021 will give you a completely different PC than anything out today

    I might be overestimating. You might be underestimating, since neither of us knows the specs only time will tell
     
  16. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    9,255
    Likes Received:
    3,204
    Location:
    Finland
    It was meant to represent the fact the prices aren't gonna go to freefall or anything like that. 3700X will get cheaper, but it's price won't come barrel rolling down either. For reference, looking at PricePicker for example Ryzen 7 2700X's price didn't drop after the initial ~10% drop 'till around 3 months after 3700X was out, to about 33% total drop. https://pcpartpicker.com/product/bd...core-processor-yd270xbgafbox?history_days=365
    And why it's suddenly 2021, XSX (and PS5) is launching in time for holiday 2020
     
  17. manux

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Messages:
    2,271
    Likes Received:
    1,180
    Location:
    Earth
    From technical POV I don't see much difference between xbox and pc. Microsoft is doing excellent job on unifying technologies and API's and even services. To me the question really is what is the best way to play. And I know this is wrong thread but for me the best way is sony console + beefy pc. This combination gives me most content and I can avoid having to upgrade to pro model due to flops flops flops.

    The technological aspect is that to me it makes zero sense to buy pc this year. xbox just raised the bar like crazy and there is absolutely no guarantee on what one needs on pc side to surpass console experience. Might not even be possible to surpass xbox with todays pc parts. Who knows, perhaps we will have some direct storage optimized ssd's with special controllers coming out next year,...

    We live very interesting times and it has never been better time to be a gamer.
     
    egoless likes this.
  18. Remij

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    May 3, 2008
    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    185
    Do you guys think that the PS5 will support something similar to what MS will have with their Sampler Feedback Streaming?
     
  19. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
    Legend Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2014
    Messages:
    11,669
    Likes Received:
    12,655
    Location:
    The North
    DX12 Ultimate.contains(SFS)
    RDNA2.contains(DX12 Ultimate)

    If PS5 == RDNA 2 then:
    Victory
     
    tinokun, Remij, Silenti and 1 other person like this.
  20. VitaminB6

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    217
    I'm not convinced of that personally, but I respect your opinion.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...