Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [post GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Proelite, Mar 16, 2020.

  1. PSman1700

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2019
    Messages:
    3,185
    Likes Received:
    1,220
    Optimized for the demo, it's the only way possible :yes:
     
  2. anexanhume

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2011
    Messages:
    2,017
    Likes Received:
    1,393
  3. VitaminB6

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    217
    I think some are forgetting that regardless of how fast your SSD is things ultimately have to go through system ram, so the amount of system ram and bandwidth is still a limiting factor. Things can get swapped in and out faster and that's important and will be beneficial on both systems but it's not going to be some kind of miracle game changer graphically.
     
    vjPiedPiper and PSman1700 like this.
  4. anexanhume

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2011
    Messages:
    2,017
    Likes Received:
    1,393
    I have to say I’m very interested in whether we get half step consoles again. I think the SSDs are going to expose some new system bottlenecks not previously reckoned with.
     
  5. Scott_Arm

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    14,338
    Likes Received:
    5,911
    Is he forgetting Series X has Mesh Shaders, or am I missing something?
     
    AzBat, disco_, Silent_Buddha and 4 others like this.
  6. PSman1700

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2019
    Messages:
    3,185
    Likes Received:
    1,220
    Which in turn is a better solution also.
     
  7. Proelite

    Veteran Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    865
    Location:
    Redmond
    Why was VRS not mentioned in the deep dive. If PS5 don't have it, then they're going to be noticeably weaker in third party games.

    After RT, VRS is the 2nd biggest feature of RDNA 2.
     
    VitaminB6 and PSman1700 like this.
  8. Scott_Arm

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    14,338
    Likes Received:
    5,911
    To be honest, I expect the Geometry Engine and Mesh Shaders to mean pretty much identical things.
     
    Silenti, temesgen, BRiT and 1 other person like this.
  9. Lurkmass

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2020
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    154
    Hardly, both have identical implementations of "mesh shaders". I'm really starting to hate that term since people are using it to describe a hardware implementation rather than a PC API hardware abstraction. Those "mesh shaders" in D3D12/Vulkan extensions that people keep speaking of does not exactly map to console implementation.

    It would probably be better from this point onwards to describe console hardware implementation of 'mesh shaders" as "primitive shaders" or 'NGG' (next generation geometry engine) ...
     
  10. Frenetic Pony

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2011
    Messages:
    556
    Likes Received:
    251
    Not at all, it's the opposite in fact. Initial games will all be CPU targeted to the lowest common denominator, the PS5, meaning only Xsx exclusives will see any benefits, probably from the 3.8ghz mode. And even later when hypthreading grows more common a 5.x% difference won't mean much. Meanwhile, while sustained streaming will probably be capped to lowest, but burst streaming for game startup, fast travel in open worlds, and etc. has zero reason to be capped. Thus we can expect the PS5 to do these things more than twice as fast in all titles from the very beginning.
     
    #430 Frenetic Pony, Mar 19, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
    egoless, DSoup and London Geezer like this.
  11. manux

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Messages:
    2,231
    Likes Received:
    1,131
    Location:
    Earth
    If we define next generation(after ps5) as some new technology or performance class previous gen cannot achieve then I find it difficult to imagine there would be next gen. Just more of the same in incremental steps as large or as small as manufacturing technology allows. Just trying to add compute units is not going to make very big difference. Previous gen could run same thing in lower resolution&framerate. i.e. we could now be stuck with mobile phone like upgrade cycle.

    Only really disruptive thing that I can imagine shaking things up is machine learning and very, very heavy use of it. Of course cloud can also be disruptive but that is whole another story.
     
    VitaminB6 likes this.
  12. RDGoodla

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    535
    Likes Received:
    144
    Why do you think Zoo is Aquariuszi??


    Mark Cerny specifically mentioned an example of 36CUs vs. 48CUs. IMO maybe this is how to decide to choose 36CUs.

    But I still wonder how much 2.23GHz for other GPU parts would help compensate fewer CUs.
     
    disco_ likes this.
  13. ultragpu

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2004
    Messages:
    6,242
    Likes Received:
    2,300
    Location:
    Australia
    So VRS is not confirmed for PS5 yet? Does it need it if it already has Geometry Engine?
     
  14. Proelite

    Veteran Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    865
    Location:
    Redmond
    Geometry engines have been in GCN cards for years. Mesh shaders are a RDNA2 only thing, as they seem to be step above the primitive shaders in RDNA1. @3dilettante help!
     
    Silenti, BRiT and PSman1700 like this.
  15. bgroovy

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    Messages:
    799
    Likes Received:
    626
    Their stated goal is to basically never be loading for longer than 1 second. This is, in effect, the complete elimination of load times. And the PS5 appears to be doing most of the same asset tracking the Xbox Series X promised. I've been saying this for a while, MS aimed to reduce load times. Sony wanted them gone all together.

    But the SSD advantage is huge, and the CPU advantage is miniscule.

    I would not take it as a given at this point that there will even be resolution differences between XSX and PS5. I think a lot of the differences will end up being a wash for most games, especially as reconstruction techniques will probably be the norm for demanding games.
     
    egoless, disco_ and megre like this.
  16. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    6,488
    Likes Received:
    5,995
    Cerny called primitive shaders one of the uses of the geometry engine. @29:30
    It looks like he just described an rdna2 feature. Any time it's a sony addition he calls it custom, and when it's from AMD he calls it a new feature for ps5.
     
    Xbat likes this.
  17. VitaminB6

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    217
    Mark Cerny specifically mentioned an example of 36CUs vs. 48CUs. IMO maybe this is how to decide to choose 36CUs.

    But I still wonder how much 2.23GHz for other GPU parts would help compensate fewer CUs.[/QUOTE]
    I remember MS saying this exact same thing last gen. Upping their CU count to 14 vs the clock boost they ended up doing. Supposedly the clock boost gave them better results. Not sure if that was really the case but idk.
     
    egoless likes this.
  18. PSman1700

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2019
    Messages:
    3,185
    Likes Received:
    1,220
    Ah, explains why MS did that again :)
     
  19. metacore

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2011
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    86
    Microsoft explicitly mentioned "patented VRS " in their seriesX press releases. Given RDNA2, obviously it should also be in ps5, maybe as different implementation, name etc and this silence is to not wake up some corporate lawyers.
     
  20. anexanhume

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2011
    Messages:
    2,017
    Likes Received:
    1,393
    Their patent mentions an “application-driven” solution.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...