Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [post GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Proelite, Mar 16, 2020.

  1. Metal_Spirit

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    But you do have to transfer the whole mip, discarding the rest, right?
     
  2. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    Any proper streaming model should not do this. SFS or not
     
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  3. TheAlSpark

    TheAlSpark Moderator
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    Maybe that's what SFS is? Have to imagine that being DX12 Ultimate means that these new features are shared on PC otherwise it makes them nearly useless to multiplatform.
     
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  4. BRiT

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    SFS/SF handle smaller than entire Mips. Pretty certain its been said as much in the various videos and should be shown in the DX Documentation link.
     
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  5. zupallinere

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    Is the main SSD on the X Series X on a user replaceable module on it's mainboard ??
     
  6. Jay

    Jay
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    Looks to be, but may be odd dimension module, hard to say.
    SF is what is shared across DX12U.
    SFS is xbox custom bit.

    From what we know so far anyway. Unless someone remembers whats in the DX12U spec differently.

    So xbox you have access to the custom filter and possibly better latency with some of the tables being managed in hardware etc compared to having to manage it yourself.
     
    #3786 Jay, Sep 16, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
  7. zupallinere

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    Soldered though ? If so then it is just how much real estate you have to cover to desolder then.
     
  8. Allandor

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    You can see this on the official picture (saw this first in the series s video, but it is the same for both):
    [​IMG]

    It looks like a m.2 slot or something like that.
    Not that MS would actually advice to replace it, but if the SSD is broken in the future, at least it seems that it can be replaced quite easily.
     
  9. function

    function None functional
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    I guess that would make a lot of sense. They could basically get their SSD built with an off the shelf controller (with custom firmware), with an off the shelf m.2 SSD PCB, and use an off the shelf connector on the XSS mobo / XSX IO board. Replacing it in the service centre would basically be a screwdriver job.

    Hopefully there will be a way for customers to get their boxes repaired for many years to come. Too bad you can't buy them direct from MS and do it yourself. Or maybe you can disassemble an external add on drive and slap that in. Though you'd still need to get all the OS stuff and quick resume partitions onto it. Hmmm ....
     
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  10. Jay

    Jay
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    Wouldn't be surprised hackers deal with formatting and installing os on to it.
     
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  11. Silenti

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    I fear this shall be a stupid question. I am not even sure I am asking it correctly. Do we know how granular this ability is? Meaning, how many pieces can the texture in question be divided into? Is it a predetermined number of say, 100 smaller files regardless of the size of the original texture, or can it broken into pieces of say 64KB (just for example) and the more the merrier?
     
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  12. BRiT

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    I would think at some point having more fragments becomes costlier due to overhead for each block.
     
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  13. AzBat

    AzBat Agent of the Bat
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    Looks like the M.2 2230 form factor(with additional shielding) that is used in the Surface Pro X & Surface Laptop 3.

    Tommy McClain
     
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  14. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    there's no description under it. May just be a placeholder for future content.
     
  15. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    First off, not a stupid question, most of everything we discuss here, barely any of it has ever been straight forward, I'm more willing to bet I just got over the 50% accuracy mark with my comments on how things work And that's likely being somewhat generous. And unless you are a wizard at render programming, most of the intricate details that matter won't make much sense either.


    As for how many tiles per texture, it is pre-determined by the system in place as I understand it. If you opt for your own Virtual Texturing system, you can decide how large those tiles are. Some will opt for smaller titles like 32KB or 16KB tiles. The hardware based tiling system uses 64KB tiles, volume tiles you get some options on sizing.

    You cannot just take an texture and have it run through a SVT system, somewhere in that process (as I understand it) you must covert the textures you want into a Virtual Texture. For instance, Unreal documentation looks like this:

    It does appear in most cases you will have to do the texture conversion manually, or you have a specific tool to help you through the process. What it does is out of my understanding. Aside from changing how you sample the texture, which is to say you are sampling to select the right tiles, I don't really know much more on this subject.

    Hope that sorta helps.
     
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  16. Silenti

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    Thanks. It does. Piecing things together bit by bit.
     
  17. t0mb3rt

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    On Twitter, James Stanard said:

    "A texture mip level is tiled into 64KB chunks--the same as the virtual memory page size. So you can reserve virtual memory for the whole texture and then commit one page at a time as needed."
     
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  18. function

    function None functional
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    That sounds like the most efficient way to do it.

    So with a 4bpp texture compressed down to 2bpp with BCPack, that should be 512 x 512 per tiles I guess. Smaller tiles if you had more bits per pixel, and/or zlib or no compression.

    I wonder if BCPack allows you to pack tiles from different textures together if you'll use at the same time - e.g. colour and normal maps?
     
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  19. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    Now that specs are released:
    https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/16/21438782/sony-ps5-size-specs-dimensions-console-huge-large-big

    PS5: Approx. 390mm x 104mm x 260mm (width x height x depth) 10546 cm^3
    PSU: 350W

    (excludes largest projection, excludes Base)
    PS5: 4.5kg
    Clockspeed: 2230 Mhz Peak
    Processing Power: 10.23TF peak

    PS5 Digital Edition: Approx. 390mm x 92mm x 260mm (width x height x depth) 9329 cm^3
    (excludes largest projection, excludes Base)
    PSU 340W
    PS5 Digital Edition: 3.9kg
    Clockspeed: 2230 Mhz Peak
    Processing Power: 10.23TF peak

    In comparison to Xbox Series X which is 300W and Series S that is
    XSX: 301 mm × 151 mm × 151 mm 6863 cm^3
    PSU: 300W
    4.4KG
    Clockspeed: 1825 Mhz
    Processing Power: 12.10 TF

    XSS: 275 mm × 151 mm × 65 mm 2699 cm^3
    PSU: ? Help can't find
    1.93 kg
    Clockspeed: 1565 Mhz
    Processing Power: 4TF

    So bounding box volumes here, XSX is 65% the volume of PS5. XSS is 25%. The numbers are a little larger when comparing to the DE.
    PSUs are about 20% better on XSX vs PS5. XSS is going to be likely much better probably in the 150 watt range
    XSX is still lighter than PS5 as well.

    I want to highlight in this thread, for some time, we talked about in great technical detail and length whether the high clocks leading to high power consumption and therefore more cooling required combined with the heat from high SSD and supporting cooling an external SSD at the same speed as well. The XSX ultimately is a larger chip by area, 20% more than PS5 and uses less power then PS5 due to much lower clocks. Therefore it's watts/mm^2 is significantly less and provides favourable cooling advantages combined with parametric yield advantages to XSX in this case. And I think the answer is clear, I cannot see another reason here but I think this discussion around this aspect is wrapped up.

    It is likely that PS5 will cost more than XSX for these reasons on a straight BOM comparison. Packaging and shipping will also cost more given the bounding box volumes above.
     
    #3799 iroboto, Sep 17, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2020
  20. cheapchips

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    The real question is why the XSX needs that extra 1mm cube of space. Gaaah, it's maddening!
     
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