Next Generation Hardware Speculation: Dreams, Wishes, Cluelessness and a Dash of Reality [2018]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Tkumpathenurpahl, Jan 19, 2018.

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  1. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
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    In what way? The storage issues remain with the disc just being a distribution format. However you get the game, it'll need to be on local storage - HDD or flash - and that choice of internal storage is independent of distribution format (it needs to be flash!)
     
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  2. Shortbread

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    I think he means, the delivery storage medium being the issue itself. Games are increasingly getting bigger, some are already over 65-80GB in delivery size. So for those wanting to own the physical medium itself, a larger capacity blu-ray is going to be needed. Which more than likely will be the 4K capacity disc.
     
  3. Shifty Geezer

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    That's pretty inevitable though. If next-gen needs 100 GB distribution media, the OD will be a UHD drive. Especially as it doubles as a 4Kmovie player. The alternative would be multi-disk installation sources and no 4K playback.
     
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  4. AlBran

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    ...only to be rendered useless with complete content download updates. :p

    (They really need to sort out the update & packaging process)
     
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  5. Allandor

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    100GB wouldn't make sense. It should be cheaper to just include 2 cheap discs, we also can see that even 100GB is not enough for AAA games. With the next gen, 200GB could be the new normal for AAA games. Just look how big FFXV already is on PC.
     
  6. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
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    If PC game downloads don't need that much right now, a console with 16 to 24GB, and 10 to 15TF will not need more than 100GB either. All assets are LZ compressed, textures are lossy-compressed.
     
  7. DieH@rd

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    UHD BD is still cheaper, it's 3 layers with 33gb each. Making 2 separate discs cost more.

    As for new solutions, Sony has announced some stuff but who knows if it will ever enter mass use.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archival_Disc

    I don't know why, but several Xbox One games have very very large sizes, like if the OS prefers to work with uncompressed files. Titanfall 1 famously had all of its sounds saved in a uncompresed WAV format! 35 freaking gigabytes of WAV. Urgh. [or maybe that was only on PC?]
     
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  8. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    ^^^^
    The consoles both contain hardware to decompress without issues.
     
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  9. ultragpu

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    Make it 1.5 x the size of a PS4 Pro for all I care :) and 250-300w, no fuss there. And it doesn't have to be exactly 15TF, 13-14 TF is still welcome with some disabled CUs. On 7nm it may be possible if they're willing to take more loss and I believe at least Sony would do it. After all strategy changes each gen depends on where you're at, the competition, timing etc, sometimes you need to take more loss initially to gain a bigger win and maintain strong legs for the long run. You can't always copy and paste the same prior successful business model for the proceeding one.

    I know people are gonna bring up the launch PS3, it's big, hot, $499 with a powerful but difficult Cell. Where PS3 failed at launch is now an academic lesson learned by everyone, if PS5 could maintain an easy developer friendly environment both hardware and software support, have Horizon 2, Bloodborne 2 and perhaps some new IPs with eye melting graphics ready for launch, specced up to point (2.5 times stronger than a Scorpio!, 3 times faster than the Pro!), people are gonna line up to demolish the stock in a heart beat no questions asked even if selling at $499 and taking up more cabinet space. Or they can offer the two tier launch tho I bet people would get the more powerful hardware regardless.
     
    #489 ultragpu, Mar 14, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
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  10. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    1.5x the size of the PS4 Pro?
    Nvm
    Physical size.

    I doubt a console that large would do well in the eyes of consumers.
     
  11. Tkumpathenurpahl

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    Agreed - I don't care how big or hot it is. As long as it's more akin to PS3 levels of noise. X1X levels would be ideal, but PS3 would do.

    Edit: ^^ this bit was directed at ultragpu ^^

    All good points, although I think two and three are the most valid.

    1) Devs already optimise for multiple targets, from two performance profiles on the Switch to overclocked Titan 1080 Ti's. Having multiple performance profiles at the start of a generation may be a faff, but I bet it's less of a faff than having multiple profiles appear part way through. And if the profiles are just a matter of more memory/CU's, that must be relatively easy to work around.

    2) I agree that this is probably the biggest risk of a two tier launch. But I think that risk can be somewhat mitigated by providing each tier with a USP.

    3) True, but I don't think we need the 6-7 year cadence. I'm of the opinion that they should launch high and low end models in 2020, then a mid-gen at about 2025.


    To go back to the second point, I think the low end PS5 should rip off the Switch, but without the built in screen:

    - Think a giant cartridge that you slot into either a base station with a BR drive and HDD, or a screen+battery.
    - It copies the Switch, in that it clocks the GPU lower when portable.
    - But it still needs to run PS4 games when portable.
     
    #491 Tkumpathenurpahl, Mar 14, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
  12. Picao84

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    Wait, what? PS3 noise level was unbearable o_O

    What would be the point of it being portable but not having a built in screen? o_O
     
    #492 Picao84, Mar 14, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
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  13. fehu

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    You can put an handle on the back maybe, and a stylized smile on top too
     
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  14. Tkumpathenurpahl

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    My PS3 was always pretty quiet: a gentle hum, but nothing like my launch PS4 :nope:

    I think giving people the option to make the base PS5 portable would be the better option because not everyone would be interested in portability, and it would save on the cost of including the screen and battery in every console.
     
  15. Picao84

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    Was it a release PS3 or a slim? The original PS3 was a turbine! Especially compared to the launch PS4...
    So you are basically talking about size and weight? Why would it make a difference at all? I carry my PS4 Pro around fine to friends houses to play PSVR party games...
     
  16. Tkumpathenurpahl

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    It was a release PS3. It was louder at launch than the PS4 at launch, but the PS3 stayed consistent, whereas the PS4 got far louder over a year or two.

    I suppose size and weight factors into it, but I'm mostly just thinking about cost. Even if a screen and battery only cost tens of dollars, it's a cost that needn't be eaten by people that just want a home console.

    In the interest of describing what I imagine: put the Switch dock on its side, and fatten it with an HDD and BR drive. The PS5 "brain" slots in to function like a traditional console.

    Then, there's a portable dock, sold separately. It contains a screen, battery, and whatever else could be contained outside of the PS5 "brain." Again, you slot that brain in.

    This would open up the market for 3rd party accessory manufacturers, who could release different form factors of the portable dock, potentially with better screens, speakers etc.

    I like the cart idea that I read a few posts ago. Make it a physically large cart, and allow for huge capacity. Considering there are 400GB MicroSD cards, something like two standard SD cards stuck face to face should allow for decent capacity at a decent price.

    But, that risks the PSVita memory card issue...
     
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  17. Picao84

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    I honestly think that would be terrible. There is a reason why consoles are preferred by many over PC: simplification and plug and play. Switch is already a notch above that but still simple enough and people see value on it. Going much further towards a LEGO type approach would confused people a lot IMO.
     
  18. Tkumpathenurpahl

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    What runs the risk of confusing the masses in your opinion?

    Confusion is why I say they should sell the portable dock separately. People buy the PS5, consisting of dock and brain. If they want to take it out and about with them, they buy the portable dock, into which they slot the brain.

    If you want to play a disk based game, insert it into the dock, and install to the brain's storage. That brings me to the main problem I keep coming back to: storage!

    So, how about using the cartridge as the layer between storage medium and RAM? For a hypothetical example:

    - 64GB is the minimum capacity of these cartridges.
    - Half of the available storage may be used for caching data between the disk/HDD and RAM, half may be used for storage.
    - If stored on the cartridge, it needn't be copied into the cache area.
    - Refer to it as something like "on the go" storage, and make it easy to move content between it and the HDD.
     
  19. ultragpu

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    OK maybe 1.5x is a bit overboard, how about the size of Xbox One or slightly larger? Millennials are all about thicc aren't they :).
     
  20. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
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    It's not a LEGO approach though. It's a cost-effective versatility between console and handheld that doesn't force cost/compromise on all shoppers, in a simple binary choice.

    It's akin having a console and a handheld as two separate devices, both with the same $200 SOC and RAM. Separate off the SOC and RAM into a transportable package that can be put into either a console shell or a handheld shell, and you save $200 off the cost of ownership for both devices. I think that's a very easy sell.

    You could even go one better and have a port in a TV, so sell a TV with a PS port to dock the PS5Core and save buying a $200 console body. So, for example, you could buy:

    $500 console
    $400 handheld

    ...In a conventional setup, or...

    $500 console with PS5Core
    $200 handheld body

    ...in the new model, for a saving of 22%, or if you were getting a TV too...

    $1000 TV
    $500 console
    $400 handheld

    ...In a conventional setup, or...

    $1000 TV with PS5 port
    $400 handheld with PS5Core

    ...fitting the PS5Core straight into the TV and not needing a console body, saving over 25%.

    Would never actually happen, but seems quite a cool idea. I've long wanted to do this with power tools. They all use a motor and all keep duplicating this cost where you could just swap the same motor into bodies - far more efficient and economical.
     
    #500 Shifty Geezer, Mar 14, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
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