[News] Microsoft admits slow start for Xbox 360 in Japan

[Hardknock]

What, you mean the xbox that made billions of $ in losses? Yeah, THAT sure proved MS doesn't need japan...

Umm, I'm not sure if you're being serious or not. But if they had sold more consoles in Japan, MS would have lost even more money than they did. Losing $200 per console is not the recipe for success in that sense.

Well, since it isn't selling too well, obviously something else is missing. I think we all agree that "something" is the games. Most people won't buy an expensive gadget simply on the promise of what will come in the future. They want their exclusive games now, and frankly, it's very hard to blame them. It is what any sane reasonable person would think

The PS2 says hello


But no, I understand where you're coming from. But MS has to start from somewhere. If they can't get the install base first, not that many Japanese centric games will be developed for it. It's a catch 22. They're doing the best they can with what they've got.

 

[London Geezer]

Billions of dollars for any company is no small change, not even for MS. They're not in the business of losing money. I'm applauding them for their effort because I benefit as a consumer. The Videogame market benefits because of increased competition. Not unusual for people to root for a console they own.

They're in the business becasue they know that eventually they'll make lots of money money (if we look at how the Playstation brand did in the past 10 years). Added to that is the prospect of "coquering the living room" which will make them even more money, if they can get their foot in people's houses. Only problem is that they still haven't been able to.

It's obvious that being strong in Japan affects how a console does in the rest of the world, ignoring that is very naive. That's why the Xbox failed against PS2 even in the rest of the world and that will hold true for X360 if MS can't make an impact in Japan. They need the games, and at the end of the day, japanese games still matter a lot over the overall success of a console, in and outside Japan.

If you think MS "doesn't need Japan", then i won't try to convince you, but it's evident that their failure in Japan and their failure to even get close to PS2's worldwide userbase are connected very tightly.

 

[MasaC]

The PS2 says hello .

Back in March 2000 the PS2 launched in Japan with the capability to play movies on the new format aka DVD-video at a reasonable price. Launch games were pretty sparse but atleast you could do more with the unit beside playing games and the DVD market in Japan increased heavily after the PS2 launch.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Billions of dollars for any company is no small change, not even for MS. They're not in the business of losing money.

Not small change, but they're not losing money as a company overall. Over...4 years?, they've lost...$4 billion? That's one quarter profit. So that's something like 1/16th their profits being spent on XB. Far less than that is being spent promoting XB360 in Japan. Though there's probably some many millions being spent on exclusive developments for the Japanese argument. Overall I'll be surprised if MS are spending even 1% of profits pursuing the Japanese market.

I'm applauding them for their effort because I benefit as a consumer. The Videogame market benefits because of increased competition. Not unusual for people to root for a console they own.

I guess if they do win substantial support in Japan, it could mean more diversity to XB360's catalogue which would be good for the platform and owners. Still, motive isn't and has never been the pursuit of what's best for the gamer. If MS were driving hard in Japan so give their gamers a better experience, good for them. I think any benefit to the gamer is secondary to the pursuit of more cash though, like most companies. I'd be happy to reep the the benefits of their 'greed' but I won't applaud them for pursuing their 'greed' even when it benefits me!

 

[avaya]

The PS2 says hello

For the Japanese the PS1 delivered great games, a reputation was built up. PS2 could rely on that brand. Xbox was a disaster in Japan, the 360 has nothing to point to that says "we will deliver, take that leap of faith"

Add to that the millions they seem to have wasted in a botched advertising campaign. It’s pretty amazing that Microsoft has made the same basic mistakes again and again.

Anyway, it’s far from over for them, I think Blue Dragon could be a turning point but I honestly don’t expect them to sell more than 2m consoles in Japan this entire generation.

 

[Guden Oden]

Umm, I'm not sure if you're being serious or not. But if they had sold more consoles in Japan, MS would have lost even more money than they did.

You've got your arguments all screwed up. Nobody's in the console business to sell consoles, but rather to sell GAMES. That's where the money is.

If you can't sell any consoles, you certainly won't sell any games.

The PS2 says hello

Like another person already pointed out, the situation isn't exactly comparable. The PS was wildly successful and had sold what, 30-50 million units worldwide by the time the PS2 launched? Something crazy like that anyway. The xbox was outsold by the god damn WONDERSWAN for weeks in japan for chrissakes, a system that had been CANCELLED before the xbox even launched! It's not remotely the same thing.

Besides, the PS2 had the whole DVD player bonus thing going for it as well, and was in fact much ridiculed by non-sony fanbosy for mostly being used as a movie player (true at the time too I believe). That changed tho, as we all know.

But MS has to start from somewhere. If they can't get the install base first, not that many Japanese centric games will be developed for it. It's a catch 22. They're doing the best they can with what they've got.

I don't really think they are doing their absolute best. They could in fact pay devs to make games for them, but like Nintendo did in the N64 and GC eras, they aren't.

 

[London Geezer]

I don't really think they are doing their absolute best. They could in fact pay devs to make games for them, but like Nintendo did in the N64 and GC eras, they aren't.

They are. Just not the right ones. I mean, a console with an avalanche of sports games, bloody PC-style war games or FPS's can only go so far.

 

[Hardknock]

You've got your arguments all screwed up. Nobody's in the console business to sell consoles, but rather to sell GAMES. That's where the money is.

If you can't sell any consoles, you certainly won't sell any games.

Yeah the whole razor blades business model. True enough they were a failure from a business sense. They did come out on top of Gamecube though (which really isn't saying much, heh.) But I don't think a lot of people expected them to even do that well, I know I didn't.

Like another person already pointed out, the situation isn't exactly comparable. The PS was wildly successful and had sold what, 30-50 million units worldwide by the time the PS2 launched? Something crazy like that anyway. The xbox was outsold by the god damn WONDERSWAN for weeks in japan for chrissakes, a system that had been CANCELLED before the xbox even launched! It's not remotely the same thing.

Besides, the PS2 had the whole DVD player bonus thing going for it as well, and was in fact much ridiculed by non-sony fanbosy for mostly being used as a movie player (true at the time too I believe). That changed tho, as we all know.

Yeah I agree, I was just being facetious

I don't really think they are doing their absolute best. They could in fact pay devs to make games for them, but like Nintendo did in the N64 and GC eras, they aren't.

They actually are funding quite a few exclusive games, but none of them are ready yet. Hopefully 2006 will be a much better year for games in Japan.

 

[Guden Oden]

They did come out on top of Gamecube though

Sales-wise yeah, they did. Nintendo laughed all the way to the bank while Bill Gates cried bitter tears into his soup tho.

But I don't think a lot of people expected them to even do that well, I know I didn't.

I don't recall WHAT I was thinking at the time actually. I was a bit annoyed with Nintendo over some aspects of the hardware design of the GC (mostly over the only hardwired T&L, and some about the non-impressive sound hardware). I guess I sort of expected Nintendo to slip a little since they seemed to have lost their way and were just following along with the flow sort of instead of leading like I was used to from days past.

This seems to have changed with revolution tho, at least from listening to the pre-release PR and gushings from certain (perhaps bribed) devs. They do seem more focused now than in a long time though. Not just more of the same anymore.

Hopefully 2006 will be a much better year for games in Japan.

Considering the console released with what, four titles? Well, it'd be hard to do worse than that. I'm sure some great softwares are going to come out of japan this year!

Too bad nobody's remaking the original Turok... I loved that game, it'd make a great nextgen title. They could put in all the stuff that couldn't be used in the N64 version because of cartridge size issues, the brachiosaur boss fight and such, more varied (and destructible) levels... Fewer pits of doom too, I'd hope.

 

[Alpha_Spartan]

MS needs Japan badly, so of course they wouldn't just quit. And is MS really trying that hard in Japan compared to their competition? To me MS has made plenty of mistakes in Japan. Just trying is not good enough. They should of had a better quality of launch games than they had this time around.

There's no reason why the 360 should have had a worse quality of games at launch than the Xbox had. And MS thinking HD games will be the h/w pusher? Please. Get a grip MS.

The Xbox 360 launch lineup was better than the PS2's. Yet the PS2 sold 10 times more systems. Why is that? It's not a simple answer.

The fact of the matter is that if the PS3 has the same lineup as the Xbox 360 in Japan it will still sell ten times more systems. That's a fact.

 

[London Geezer]

The Xbox 360 launch lineup was better than the PS2's. Yet the PS2 sold 10 times more systems. Why is that? It's not a simple answer.

The fact of the matter is that if the PS3 has the same lineup as the Xbox 360 in Japan it will still sell ten times more systems. That's a fact.

Well it wasn't 10 times, but anyway, the most simple reason is that there were more PS2's out at launch than X360, obviously because of the worldwide launch.. If X360 launched with as many units as PS2, it would have sold out anyway. In Europe and NA of course. PS2 still had awful shortages simply because there's just too many people wanting the new console at launch. There will always be "shortages" simply because keeping up with demand will be impossible. :smile:

If PS3 launches with as many units as X360, it will sell them out. Will it mean that PS3 "could only sell as much as X360!!"? No. It just means Sony could provide those many consoles.

About the launch lineup, i'm not sure, depends on taste really, but PS2 had a couple of really cool games (Tekken Tag and SSX) which i played much more than anything i would play on X360.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Don't know about the shortages elsewhere, but there were xbox360's readily available in a couple of bigger stores where I live when I visited them over weekend.
It's a small and unreliable sample of the situation here, in Europe and worldwide, but during the PS2 shortage the device was nowhere to be seen after day or two from launch, and months after that.
The impression I'm getting is that the launch hype and demand is vaning dangerously to a very average level, and MS should really do something and soon, instead of relying that the launch hype and limited supplies will carry them over 'til the competitors launch.
It feels as if they indeed are planning a "relaunch" of sorts, maybe a xbox360 bundle with the cam and some game(s), especially if PS3 is to feature the new Eye Toy heavily in it's list of features.

 

[London Geezer]

Don't know about the shortages elsewhere, but there were xbox360's readily available in a couple of bigger stores where I live when I visited them over weekend.
It's a small and unreliable sample of the situation here, in Europe and worldwide, but during the PS2 shortage the device was nowhere to be seen after day or two from launch, and months after that.
The impression I'm getting is that the launch hype and demand is vaning dangerously to a very average level, and MS should really do something and soon, instead of relying that the launch hype and limited supplies will carry them over 'til the competitors launch.
It feels as if they indeed are planning a "relaunch" of sorts, maybe a xbox360 bundle with the cam and some game(s), especially if PS3 is to feature the new Eye Toy heavily in it's list of features.

Heh... What can they do, apart from releasing some REALLY good games that will make people go "WOW i want to buy an X360 to play this"...
X360 is readily available in the shops today, but only the Core system. The Premium is nowhere to be seen.

 

[rabidrabbit]

A relaunch would at least remind people that there is a console called xbox360, with the lack of must have games and advertising it certainly doesn't seem that they'd want to sell them.
If they are having problems with getting enough premium packages to market, then it's understandable they don't want to shout it out too much, and instead are concentrating on a spring "relaunch" to counter the PS3 hype (assuming the PS3 is released in spring in whatever territory).
They're strategizing, but they really need a strong title or two to counter the PS3 launch effectively enough. I'm not sure GoW itself can carry that burden well enough.

 

[Phil]

Well it wasn't 10 times, but anyway, the most simple reason is that there were more PS2's out at launch than X360, obviously because of the worldwide launch..

I agree, though it's not necessarely because of the worldwide launch. On a worldwide scale, Microsoft shipped less units than Sony did on its first day in Japan (~500'000 vs. 700'000). I think this is mainly because Microsoft was pushing its production limits to get the product out on time, where as the PS2 had a more or less confortable start when it launched first in March with only the Dreamcast to compete to and GameCube and Xbox over a year away.

 

[mckmas8808]

I agree, though it's not necessarely because of the worldwide launch. On a worldwide scale, Microsoft shipped less units than Sony did on its first day in Japan (~500'000 vs. 700'000). I think this is mainly because Microsoft was pushing its production limits to get the product out on time, where as the PS2 had a more or less confortable start when it launched first in March with only the Dreamcast to compete to and GameCube and Xbox over a year away.

Didn't Sony ship close to 1 million PS2s the first day in Japan?

 

[patsu]

The Xbox 360 launch lineup was better than the PS2's. Yet the PS2 sold 10 times more systems. Why is that? It's not a simple answer.

The fact of the matter is that if the PS3 has the same lineup as the Xbox 360 in Japan it will still sell ten times more systems. That's a fact.

Some (combination of) possible explanations are:

* Lifecycle/Market readiness. People may be more ready to replace their old consoles at the time PS2 was launched. For XB360, people may not be ready to change their consoles yet...

* Xbox didn't have the right track record in Japan.

* Xbox 360 didn't have the right games at launch.

* Consumers did not understand or perceive the leap of performance/coolness to entice them to buy. DOA4 did not generate much of a sales spur in Japan. Also if what <b>avaya</b> highlighted is accurate, MS did not do enough prep work to set the consumers up.

* People are waiting for more info from Sony and Nintendo.

Some may say the Japanese prefer to buy Japanese products, but Apple iPod disapproved that theory. I believe given its bad track record in Japan, Microsoft just did not deliver an ecstatic enough product experience to reverse the trend, let alone establish a bigger presence.

 

[mckmas8808]

Some may say the Japanese prefer to buy Japanese products, but Apple iPod disapproved that theory. I believe given its bad track record in Japan, Microsoft just did not deliver an ecstatic enough product experience to reverse the trend, let alone establish a bigger presence.

Which is exactly why I will not applaude MS for what they are doing in Japan.

 

[patsu]

Depends. Compared to PS2 and Xbox, it certainly seems that XB360 did worse. Let's wait until PS3 and Revo is launched before we jump to any conclusion.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Which is exactly why I will not applaude MS for what they are doing in Japan.

because MS controls the flow of time?

They signed big-name games, but they all missed launch, maybe they should've delayed the launch, but either way they still deserce credit for what they're doing.

Recap:
- 5 JRPG's already scheduled or released (EM, BD, LO, CryOn, Far East of Ziria) when xbox1 had 1 or 2. 3 of em have budgets between 10-20 million dollars.
- Got big time support from Capcom with RE5, Dead Rising, and Lost Planet.
- Support from many more japanese dev's as hardnock noted earlier.

Maybe they could have done more, but they did alot either way, we are getting a number of new franchises, I don't see the big reason to be so negative. MS can't control the flow of time, their games were all delayed, big deal. You should just understand that and still recognize that they are trying, shit happens you know.