Newer = better for legacy games?

Discussion in '3D Hardware, Software & Output Devices' started by Blakhart, Sep 12, 2008.

  1. Blazkowicz

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    is the 16bit trash a direct3D thing? I tried the old counterstrike on the original half-life, on a 8500GT in 16x/16x, and didn't notice anything wrong.

    that may be the only 16bit-only game I have (and even then a -32bpp command line switch might work). most of the 1997 era games were pure junk anyway! if you are into slightly less older games I think a recent gpu will do fine.

    an example, quake 3. it's already nine year old!
    I have a geforce 7 and run it 800x600 16xS, 120Hz. You wouldn't believe that 800x600 looks that good! extreme AA and extreme framerate work well. Still I would want a newer geforce to at last have decent texture filtering (16xS cleans the worst of it but I think I can tell), and have a try at 32xS! my poor 7600GT still not being framerate-perfect at 1024 16xS either.

    and, thanks you 2008 IQ for being at least as insane as me.

    I can only agree with a legacy D3D wrapper. there should also be a sandbox, a kind of "fake VM" or a VM that is allowed to communicate with the wrapper, where the game could behave as it were an Administrator.
    I believe Microsoft could have enough workforce to put some people working on this shit. I still hasn't forgiven them for the DOS support in windows XP :) (a big share of non working games, no networking at all, and lackluster sound support)
     
  2. Davros

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    but why do we need a wrapper ?
    system shock 2 + theif 2 have been fixed apparently
    that leaves crimson skies, I cant think of any other games that would need one
    I can think of a few old games that dont work correctly but thats down to xp compatability...
     
  3. swaaye

    swaaye Entirely Suboptimal
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    they are fixed by a modified DDRAW.DLL. Essentially, Timeslip intercepts what the game does and forces things to happen differently. Might as well call it a wrapper.
     
  4. Davros

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    It fixes 1 specific problem I doubt thats what iq has in mind when he callls for a dx5,6,7 to dx10 wrapper
     
  5. Blazkowicz

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    long term, vendor might want to forget about legacy D3D and leave the pre-DX9 or the pre-DX8 stuff out. A wrapper would then be useful.

    though, long term we just have, presumably, generic massively parallel hardware used through OpenCL or something. So instead of a wrapper we would have an implementation?
     
  6. Davros

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    oh yes in the future if dx9 and lower support was dropped it would be,
    but right now crimson skies is the only game that i know of that doesnt work right because of a d3d error as opposed to a windows xp compatability error

    And I really recon "The Mighty" Humus could fix this
    Humus if your reading any chance ?
    or demirung or howerver he's spelled
     
  7. 2008 IQ is unacceptable

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    I thought dx 8.1 used int8 precision or at least on the 6800gt and 5900 ultra, no?

    Well thanks, blazkowicz=]
     
  8. Demirug

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    Well, I have written a wrapper for Direct3D 7 and 8 to 9 more than 3 years ago. Then the Direct3D 9 commands could be filtered by custom plugins. It wasn’t open source but freeware. The overall interest wasn’t that big. Maybe I was just too early with this Idea.
     
  9. Blakhart

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    If I replace this 7900gtx with an 8800, will I still have to learn to love texture shimmering?
     
  10. 2008 IQ is unacceptable

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    Not as long as you set high quality.
     
  11. swaaye

    swaaye Entirely Suboptimal
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    The games didn't really stop working until about a year ago now with 8800 and 2900. Stopped some games from working and made others very ugly. So I guess that yeah you were too early. ;)
     
  12. 2008 IQ is unacceptable

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    With all of the features cut in dx10 HW, the only possible way you could enjoy all older games is with a wrapper.

    There's so much they'd need to emulate in the wrapper that I suggest anyone who's capable and wants to, to get busy now.

    They'd need to make 16 bit color and textures look better than ever before.

    they'd need to emulate the w-buffer

    alt pixel center option

    a few different types of fog

    this npo2texture cap(s) I keep hearing about.

    they'd need to get trilinear filtering perfect somehow.

    they'd need to test mad different configs.

    they'd need to make a control panel.

    Like I said, I'd pour money into it almost, if not monthly.

    I don't know why nvidia and ati just don't do it and start charging money for drivers or something like that.

    But they're not going to, so someone here could start doing it; I couldn't because I lack the skills, but I know exactly what I want.
     
  13. I.S.T.

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    Um, they already do those things. That texture cap thing is a bug in a game, not nVidia's fault.
     
  14. Davros

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    As ive said to IQ before i dont know of any games thet arnt working properly (apart from c-skies)
     
  15. 2008 IQ is unacceptable

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    You haven't been playing many older games then, because 16 bit color looks like shit. It should be rendered internally at 32 bit like 3dfx did, but it isn't.
     
  16. Davros

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    well if you give me the names of some i will
    the 16bit problem is only with certain games
    heres a sceenshot of superbike 2001 taken back in 2001
    http://www.gamershell.com/static/screenshots/2309/35667_full.jpg

    sceenshot i took at 16bit
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    looks more or less the same as it ever did

    ps: 3dfx 22bit sort of ;)

    in the dx 3 era some hardware accellerated games were released but these generally were patched to use hardware and then a specific chipset not d3d
    it wasnt untill the after the release of directx 5 (released july 97) that we started seeing d3d games in any quantity im pretty sure 99% of d3d 7 games had a 32bit option
    so your looking at dx5 + 6 games

    having just tried a dx 5 game you know what the problem is ? not poor texures but lcd scalling 640x480 is not great on a big screen lcd
    8x supersampling helps a lot and you wouldnt be able to do that on an old gfx card
     
    #36 Davros, Sep 23, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2008
  17. 2008 IQ is unacceptable

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    I don't use scaling, I always use centering.
    Yes, I'm looking at dx5 and 6 games. Dx7 games run fine.
     
  18. Blakhart

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    Speaking of wich. I came across an 8800gts that runs at 600 core, 1500 shader, and 1800 RAM cheap. Will it do as well or better than my 7900gtx in dx7/9 games?
     
  19. Davros

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    yes
    8800gts (512mb) vs 7900gtx
    Sum of FPS Benchmarks 1680x1050 AA
    8800gts = 445.50
    7900gtx = 187.40

    Half Life 2 Episode 2
    TH-Timedemo
    (1280x1024, 4xAA, 8xAF)
    8800gts = 99
    7900gtx = 61

    http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/chart.../compare,744.html?prod[2070]=on&prod[2093]=on

    permalink :
    url=http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-q3-2008/compare,744.html?prod%5B2070%5D=on&prod%5B2093%5D=on]Tom's Hardware - Benchmark World in Conflict v1.05[/url]

    ps: regarding game compatability
    project igi has corrupted menus, (green lines everywhere) in the game there is slight corruption windows xp 8800gts 177.92
    but in vista 177.92 drivers its perfect
    could just be drivers as im sure ive had it working fine in xp before
     
    #39 Davros, Sep 24, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 24, 2008
  20. I.S.T.

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    Definitely. Pretty much any 8800 series card is much faster except maybe the 8800GS(Which has now be rebranded as the 9600 GSO).
     
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