New Unreal Engine question

[Solarus]

I really didn't want to start a new thread about this, but at the same time I didn't want to go off topic in the Gears of War 3 thread. But it was a question about the new engine their using.

I saw the video of Gears of War 3 and the lighting looks pretty awesome, I always thought the lighting in Gears of War 1 and Gears of War 2 looked really..flat for lack of a better word. I can't explain it it's like the lights were there, but they didn't really "light" anything if that makes sense? I heard Gears of War 3 uses a new engine, and I just wanted to know about the lighting they're using. More specifically, what type of lighting is it called? And why / could they put this lighting in Gears of War 1 and Gears of War 2?

I'm not saying Gears of War 1 and Gears of War 2 are bad games, I just found that thelighting and even the shadows in those games just seemed like they weren't really there or something. Like in GoW3 objects are casting shadows, are being lit by light etc. But in GoW2 barely anything had shadows other than those really dark rings at their base, and lights didn't really do anything they were just kind of there.

Thanks for educating me :smile:

 

[brain_stew]

It uses the new global illumination light baking engine that was added to UE3: Lightmass.

http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/Lightmass.html

Edit: Here's an example of the difference it made when Epic used it on one of their old UT3 maps:



Note that since this is all prebaked it doesn't actually run any slower ingame despite there being a night and day difference in quality.

 

[Solarus]

Thanks for answering, so it's not a new engine but rather a new lighting system?

And am I correct when I say that prebaked means its like park of the textures or something?
Also are games like Uncharted 2 using a global illumination system?

 

[Rangers]

It uses the new global illumination light baking engine that was added to UE3: Lightmass.

Note that since this is all prebaked it doesn't actually run any slower ingame despite there being a night and day difference in quality.

So it's prebaked, not dynamic? What about the God rays?

 

[AlNom]

yes, the GI is baked into the map.

Not sure why SSGI is such a big deal (considering the leap in cost) when environments are almost always static (and thus far, SSGI isn't exactly that accurate anyway). >_>

 

[dragonelite]

But didn't Gears 3 have dynamic levels Levels completely changes and stuff something about the level sinking deeper into the ground and Shooting that Score counter in that thrashball stadium?
Wouldn't that kinda ruin the use of Baked GI.
Or am i wrong?

 

[Rangers]

Not sure why SSGI is such a big deal (considering the leap in cost) when environments are almost always static (and thus far, SSGI isn't exactly that accurate anyway). >_>

Day turning to night dynamic lighting changes during the level?

 

[nightshade]

I think Gears 3 now uses real time shadowing & lighting for most of the stuff...correct me if wrong.
Both Gears 1 & Gears 2 used baked shadowing & lighting for everything but the characters, but I am noticing a lot of real time environment shadowing in the handful of Gears 3 videos we have seen till now.

 

[Dungeonscaper]

I think Gears 3 now uses real time shadowing & lighting for most of the stuff...correct me if wrong.
Both Gears 1 & Gears 2 used baked shadowing & lighting for everything but the characters, but I am noticing a lot of real time environment shadowing in the handful of Gears 3 videos we have seen till now.

From what I remember playing Gear 2 had dynamic character shadows and everything had dynamic SSAO. The SSAO only updated when you stopped moving your crosshair and then it gently faded in the new shading.

 

[Prophecy2k]

I 'm interested but a bit confused here...

Is SSGI (which i'm assuming means screen space global illumination) the same as using pre-baked lighting as in the use of Epic's "lightmass" solution?

Which does Gears 3 use? Static pre-baked lighting or dynamic GI?

Also, why doesn't Epic allow their engine licensees to use their "lightmass" solution? It kinda narks me when i see Epic games looking so nice and then almost every other UE3 game out there looking like a horribly lit jaggy mess. IMHO Epic are shafting their licensees by witholding engine updates until "the next gears game releases" (or so i've heard).

[/rant] Also apologies to the mods for the slight OT there ;-)

 

[L. Scofield]

SSGI is not the same as Lightmass. Lightmass bakes the lighting/shadows into lightmaps while SSGI does all the calculations in realtime. Main difference is (aside from quality, Lightmass is superior) that with SSGI the lighting can be updated in realtime and can be affected by both static and dynamic objects, while Lightmass is entirely static.

I think Epic allows their licensees to use Lightmass. UDK had it available since day one.

 

[Ruskie]

So Gears 3 is the first UE3 game to use object based motion blur?

 

[L. Scofield]

I don't think it's using OBMB, only camera based.

 

[AlNom]

So Gears 3 is the first UE3 game to use object based motion blur?

Mass Effect is the first notable one. I don't recall the ones between end of 2006 and end of 2007 though.

Also, why doesn't Epic allow their engine licensees to use their "lightmass" solution?

What makes you think it doesn't? It's been part of the engine since last year.

 

[Ruskie]

I don't think it's using OBMB, only camera based.

It seemed to me its object based although subtle...here....

http://i54.tinypic.com/2yudseb.jpg

 

[AlNom]

But didn't Gears 3 have dynamic levels Levels completely changes and stuff something about the level sinking deeper into the ground and Shooting that Score counter in that thrashball stadium?
Wouldn't that kinda ruin the use of Baked GI.
Or am i wrong?

Day turning to night dynamic lighting changes during the level?

That wasn't the point of what I was saying... of course there are uses to SSGI (e.g. Red Faction level of dynamism). I'm talking about the trade-off in cost when *most of the time* the environment is rather static.

 

[Dungeonscaper]

Mass Effect is the first notable one. I don't recall the ones between end of 2006 and end of 2007 though.

What makes you think it doesn't? It's been part of the engine since last year.

I thought Mass Effect used a proprietary engine.

 

[L. Scofield]

It seemed to me its object based although subtle...here....

http://i54.tinypic.com/2yudseb.jpg

Interesting.

I thought Mass Effect used a proprietary engine.

Nope, it uses UE3. Though Bioware's mastery of lighting techniques certainly puts it above most if not all UE3 titles.

 

[dragonelite]

Wow just watched 1 hour worth of Medal of honor single player and dam they did some nice stuff with the unreal engine.

 

[jlippo]

Nope, it uses UE3. Though Bioware's mastery of lighting techniques certainly puts it above most if not all UE3 titles.

I would rather call it Illuminate Labs mastery.
They used Beast to calculate lightmaps and lightprobes in ME1 and most likely in ME2.

Same tech was used for Mirrors Edge and that was the secound UE3 game that looked different.

Day turning to night dynamic lighting changes during the level?

You can bake day and night transition into lightmaps or use method of baking which allows lighting changes.