Neverending Upscaling/Resolutions/AA etc Thread #3 (Rules Post #1!)

Discussion in 'Consoles' started by Shifty Geezer, May 27, 2008.

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  1. Gitaroo

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    360 version of Bioshock has some kind of edge blurring to make up for the anti aliasing if the ini file in the PC version is correct, maybe they are trying to make the same thing for PS3 version.
     
  2. Dominik D

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  3. chachi

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    It's not just the edges. It's either a poor capture (hopefully) or they've applied a blur filter to help with jaggies. I hate that seeming trend in PS3 games, HD is meant to be clean and sharp, not blurry. Contrast with the RE5 shot, that's how HD should look. Sure it'd be better if there was AA but at least it looks like you're seeing the game without smearing vaseline in your eyes. There are enough upscaled games without making proper HD ones look upscaled.

    edit - I'm probably being unfair to Bioshock, there's probably DOF on there as well that makes things look even more blurry in the background and it won't seem so bad in motion, but I really hope this isn't the improved graphics the rumors mentioned.
     
    #143 chachi, Jun 4, 2008
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  4. DrJay24

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    I see the master list has some UE3 games listed with 2x AA. I wasn't aware that UE3 could do MSAA, so what is used? If it is some kind of selective AA (Gears?) maybe the list should be more explicit.
     
    #144 DrJay24, Jun 4, 2008
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  5. catisfit

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    I was looking at the following Battlefield: Bad Company screenshot (native 720p by the looks of it), and it seems to suffer from significant dithering like GTA4 360 (it's this similarity that leads me to suspect this is a 360 screenshot although that's unconfirmed):

    [​IMG]

    It seems strange, here's a 2x closeup of the tress on the horizon, which seem to suddenly flick from non-dithered to dithered:

    [​IMG]

    I can't see that there's any difference between the two sets of trees, I thought perhaps one set might be a painted skybox and the other a billboard but that doesn't seem to be the case.

    It looks like the smoke uses dithering too (2x closeup):

    [​IMG]

    Is this a similar artifact to GTA4?
     
  6. Arwin

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    This is a transparancy issue. There are two ways to do transparancy. A real alpha based one, and one that uses dithering (showing the background in alternate pixels). It's hard to predict what will happen on which platform really - one game will have real transparency on the 360 and the other one (it has a name but I forgot) on PS3, and the next game will have it the other way around (Sega Rally is one example at least). Real transparency is sometimes not possible because it costs more, depending on the circumstances (video mode, scaling, tiling, etc.)
     
  7. qz33

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    Lets try it like this. It is incomplete for me with a near non existant understanding of this material to understand. I do not know what that graph is supposed to communicate. Are you guys counting pixels by zooming the source?


    Like I said I am new and I just want to understand somethings so I can read the posts here.
     
  8. TheAlSpark

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    Did you at least see the zoomed in screenshots with lines indicating steps and number of pixels (the Halo 3 examples) ? It sounds like you didn't go through all the links.
     
  9. Shifty Geezer

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    It's a very weird transparency issue! Look on the third image - only osme of the blending is dithering. Other parts are properly alpha blended. And why in this day and age are we looking at dithered transparency?! Especially when plenty of similar titles aren't needing to resort to these low-tech hacks?
     
  10. TheAlSpark

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    IIRC, this is an artifact of alpha-to-coverage due to not enough sampling. As Arwin mentions - the upshot is that it will save on fillrate as there is no actual blending occurring. For a foliage heavy game, I can see why they would use it, and if they increase the AA level the dithering would be reduced somewhat.
     
  11. Quaz51

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    #151 Quaz51, Jun 4, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 4, 2008
  12. TheAlSpark

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    It's a pretty odd choice considering the bandwidth available to the ROPs on the 360. Perhaps they are using an FP16 framebuffer.
     
  13. -tkf-

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    Do as everyone else here, read for a few weeks, learn and then start to post questions :)
     
  14. Mintmaster

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    Seems like some devs are confused. If you can do alpha blending (i.e. you have the framework for sorting), then that's always the best choice.

    Alpha-to-coverage is a superior substitute for alpha testing that takes advantage of a multisampled framebuffer.
     
  15. Mintmaster

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    This is actually quite different from the GTA4 problem. GTA4 does use alpha to coverage at times, but only where PS3 uses aliasing-prone alpha testing, like with fences and tree leaves. The problem with GTA4 has to do with some texturing bug along with their shadowing method (which is poorly implemented on 360).

    This is really weird because clearly some parts of the smoke are alpha blended. Why would only parts of it look dithered?

    You can be sure that they're using alpha blending on other things like dirt clouds or water spray, so that's unlikely. Who knows why they decided to alpha test the shrubs on 360.
     
  16. DrJay24

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    Quaz, check out the "Crash Time" 360 demo. It looks like a blurry mess, one of the ugliest games on the 360. The sense of speed isn't bad and I like the crash replay with the analog stick, but the graphics...
     
  17. catisfit

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    It is strange, isn't it? That's why I posted it up here because I couldn't see any reason why only parts of the image look like this.
     
  18. Gitaroo

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    anyone check Ikaruga and REZ HD on xbl? Wonder if those run at 1080p
     
  19. Quaz51

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    no
    both have 1280x720p AAx4 native resolution (and 540x720 rendering resolution for Ikaruga)
     
  20. Quaz51

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    it's 1280x720 AAx2
     
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