Neverending Upscaling/Resolutions/AA etc Thread #3 (Rules Post #1!)

Discussion in 'Consoles' started by Shifty Geezer, May 27, 2008.

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  1. MazingerDUDE

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    Or course, UE3 itself is fanatastic my friend :cool: it's just that its performance is relatively poor on PS3 due to the hardware limit.
     
  2. ShootMyMonkey

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    A more accurate way of putting it is that UE3 in terms of platform support sucks on the PS3 as long as Epic is working on a 360-exclusive title of their own. When they were working on UT3, since it was a multiplatform title, Epic only then started to put forth some serious effort on the PS3 support. During that time, at least, everyone I knew working at a licensee of UE3 was saying that the 360 version was the one falling way behind the PS3. The moment Gears 2 came into the picture, the relationship flipped back again.

    People seem to forget that Epic is still a game company, and not an engine company, and so a lot of the work that goes into the Unreal Engine is going to be centered around their own needs, and not necessarily the needs of licensees.
     
  3. MazingerDUDE

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    Interesting, I mean just look at Bioshock. The game was made of old UE build, yet it runs poorly on PS3 even with the latest UE build.

    The closest parity I've seen on Ureal Engine is BIA HH, which seems to run actually slightly better on PS3, but its visual is nothing impressive, certainly not in UE3 way (shader heavy texture etc)
     
  4. galopin

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    UE3 quality is the game production toolchain it bring more than a great 3D engine. It's nice but not really flexible and can show weakness quickly and only the DX10 render path support real AA

    And for the fight X360/PS3, we had a talk with some epic dev at the last sony's devstation last spring. They don't mind about the ps3, they do a minimum stuff to manage a 30fps on their UT (spu fragment patching only, no geometry processing on spu for culling, ...). they talked about a 15-20% performance drop on ps3.
     
  5. MazingerDUDE

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    Oh yeah, UT3 ran much better on the 360 as well.

    Not that the PS3 version was poor by any means, but the 360 version was just better in every way, more complex geometries, better LODs, more stable frame rate, and more effects etc. Hell, the 360 version even supported split screen mode which was completely absent on the PS3 version.

    UT3 could easily be one of the worst UE3 game for PS3 when compared to the 360 version.
     
  6. joker454

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    It's hard to keep msaa on PS3 versions of multi platform games. The memory difference between platforms is already a burden, adding msaa on PS3 only increases that burden by stealing more ram. RSX hardware msaa is also not very fast, last I checked on our title it was adding ~3ms per frame. Having said that, I'm surprised they didn't just roll their own software solution for Mirrors Edge. I've only tried the PS3 demo, and given the nature of the world, mostly non organic stuff like angular buildings, the aliasing looks really jarring.
     
  7. DrJay24

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    I don't think Bioshock is a straight plug-and-play UE game on either platform.

    There is no doubt UE games can run well on the PS3, UT3 runs greats, Aof2 and Stranglehold run good too.

    Now you are just exaggerating, all reviews and comparisons said the game varied little between the two. The split screen thing was Epic just trying to add value to a six month old game, Army of Two has split screen on the PS3.
     
  8. djskribbles

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    Yeah... where did he get that from? Most reviews (and comparison shots) indicate that both versions look and play essentially the same. I've also owned the PS3 version and it looked and played great... no framerate problems whatsoever... actually ran quite smooth.
     
  9. assurdum

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    Forgive me but is it totally false, the only surplus in UE 3 on 360 is the snow in a level for the rest ps3 version is really the same.
     
  10. MazingerDUDE

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    Well, having UE3 game run great on PS3 is one thing, achieving the parity on both system is another.

    And all the complains about PS3 version being gimped is just in relative terms most of the time.

    That being said, even though UT3 for PS3 runs great, it's just more great on 360.

    If you look at the details, the difference is more than subtle IMO.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    On top of that, more noticeable LODs (ie. shorter appearing distance of foilage), less effects (like snowing is completely absent in some of the levels on PS3), less stable framerate (when things get chaotic), and of course, no split screen mode.

    It'd be hard to find a game with so much compromises as UT3.
     
    #1530 MazingerDUDE, Oct 31, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2008
  11. zawarudo

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    So, adding new objects, buildings and parts to a map in a dated game is nowadays defined as running better because of it? Interesting.

    The only thing I see in that comparison that is a real VISUAL difference we can identify, and not just something that wasn't PUT into the map at the time, is the fact that the 360 build looks more washed out and the textures more flat or less detailed. Look at the ground to the bottom left and tell me which one looks better...

    Of course, my apologies if you were trying to indicate that the UT3-PS3's LOD is so terrible that it doesn't display pipes RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU.
     
  12. MazingerDUDE

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    It's not really adding anything, since the 360 version basically has the same geometries as the PC version that was released even earlier than the PS3 version. The PS3 just had less to begin with, that's it.

    The color is more to do with the setting, and the texture quality is more or less identical if not better on the 360.

    Anyway this debate is going nowhere, I'll end my part here.
     
  13. zawarudo

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    That's BS - you have no indication whatsoever that the PS3 couldn't run the exact same map as used in the 360 build. Just because they made changes to the map does not mean it can only appear like that on the specific console that the iteration came out on.

    Sorry but you're just talking.
     
  14. Arwin

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    I guess so, but then UT3 was one of those rare UE3 games that was first released on PS3 first, and much later and more optimised on the 360.
     
  15. Cyan

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    I've been always under the impression that AA doesn't consume any ram at all but it's a serious bandwidth hogger.... I'm surprised how with one statement you took down the myth of AA for me :???:
     
  16. AlBran

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    Yup, it does take up ram... That's what all the fuss is about regarding the eDRAM and tiling. ;) The backbuffer scales linearly with the number of samples per pixel. That's exactly why the bandwidth requirements jump as well. ;) I'm sure I explained this in our last discussion regarding AA/shader AA/ what's the best choice (pros/cons of MSAA/SSAA/CSAA ):???:.
     
  17. joker454

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    It takes no extra ram on 360 because it's all done in the 10mb of edram (tiled). It takes extra memory on PS3 though. It's that double memory/performance whammy that makes msaa tough to pull off on multi platform games.
     
  18. Statix

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    I'm amazed that Mirror's Edge on PS3 is full 720p (1280x720) because the demo is jaggies galore to me. When I played it, I really thought it was reminiscent of a 1024x576 or so game. But after doing the measurements, lo and behold, they do come out to be 1280x720 without AA. I dunno what kind of technique DICE is using the make this game look so jaggerific, but maybe they should try doing the exact opposite of that.

    From the PS3.IGN section (Oct. 30):
    http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/925/925710/mirrors-edge-20081030032321654.jpg
     
    #1538 Statix, Nov 1, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2008
  19. zawarudo

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    That's what I'm saying. Also, in the shot you posted, it's much more smoothed out, washed out and less vibrant in colour plus compressed. That means the jaggies are even worse when you're actually playing it. Because of the utopian clean and shiny environment, jaggies stand out of the background that they become a real eyesore. Compare it to Dead Space which had, granted, small and close environments, but also no AA. The jaggies didn't bother me one bit.
     
  20. Cyan

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    Yes, I know.... Alstrong, if I misunderstood you, I apologize. I always thought AA was RAM free based on the 360's hardware being akin to a PC where it doesn't consume RAM but it takes a lot of bandwidth, much more than any other graphical process -excuse me if I'm wrong-.

    Edit: Well, needless to say I'm realizing you and joker454 were talking about video memory, but not only that, AA takes up RAM being it from the main ram or video ram, depending on the specific hardware.

    I just want to throw myself in the void right now :smile:. I could curl up and die.:oops:
     
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