Neverending Upscaling/Resolutions/AA etc Thread #3 (Rules Post #1!)

Discussion in 'Consoles' started by Shifty Geezer, May 27, 2008.

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  1. chachi

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    That would be inexplicable, what reason would they have to bypass the hardware scaling like that? The only reason Ii can think of is maybe they wanted to keep the "2d" overlay graphics (life bars, etc.) the same between versions, but that would be pretty retarded.

    Anyway now we really do need some 1080p comparison shots. :)
     
  2. thambos

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    ah, ok. I didn't think of it like that, but that would make sense.

    i just prefer to run games at 1080p if possible because for some reason my TV crops the edges when i run 720p over HDMI.

    @ 1080p
    http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/7586/gt5p1080nu3.jpg

    @ 720p
    http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/1355/gt5p720qy9.jpg

    @ 720p TV adjustment menu
    http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/8649/gt5p720setupmenu2vu3.jpg

    I can move it left/right
    http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9527/gt5p720hp0fx3.jpg

    up/down
    http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9691/gt5p720vp0sj5.jpg

    and increase/decrease the vertical size of the image
    http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/5552/gt5p720vs100lq7.jpg


    but i can't increase/decrease the horizontal size. so I always have the left & right of the screen cropped, or the top/bottom/left/right cropped if i maintain the correct aspect ratio.

    it's more easily perceptible at the PixelJunk Eden screen size adjustment. By deleting the save I can reset it to show approximately how much of the screen is cut off when i run @720p.

    1080p
    720p


    Mod Note: Please don't use img tags to post a gallery of photos. -AlS
     
  3. TheAlSpark

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    That would be your TV overscanning the 720p signal. Check to see if your TV can support 1:1 scaling.
     
  4. thambos

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    only over VGA unfortunately :cry:

    sorry about the images. i copied the urls from imageshack (thought they would be thumbnails)
     
  5. joker454

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    #685 joker454, Aug 1, 2008
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  6. TheAlSpark

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    hm... can you make sure if one of your HDMI ports can serve as a PC port?

    No prob, although there should have been a couple links generated indicated as thumbnails from IS.
     
  7. thambos

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    I cant find anything like that in the menu. It's a VIZIO GV52L. I was never able to find out exactly what scaler it uses, all i know is it's made by Genesis.

    anyway, sorry about this; sorta lead the thread off topic.:oops:
     
  8. -tkf-

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    Regarding SC4
    The 360 version renders internally in a higher res and downscales to 720 creating a "aa" effect but with a somewhat blurred result(?).
    In 1080p it doesn´t upscale from the native res, but instead scales from 720p to 1080p.
    This seems like the game handles the scaling to 720p but relies on the 360 hardware to do the 1080p scaling.

    Would be interesting to see the results from a VGA monitor.
     
  9. tahrikmili

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  10. Quaz51

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    lot of no720p X360 game use 720p software rescale integrate in post-process and before add true 720p HUD . it's a fact not an hypothesis (otherwise direct framebuffer grab would reveal native resolution of all sub720p games)
    there are probably some reason, the rendering aren't the last phase before the final image. and i think the cost of the software upscale is low if integrate in the post-process phase (particularly for down rescale like SC4, less pixels for the post-process) and is more simple for add sharp true 720p HUD

    SC4 engine have a 720p software rescale, it's sure. the HUD is 720p and even the realtime 3D lettering "BATTLE 1 FIGHT!" in the begining of the round is in true 720p, probably add after rendering and post-process (and software rescale of course)
    and all the perfect HDMI 1080p grandmaster's screenshots (http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1196910&postcount=596) prove this
    a 1365x960 rendering upscaled in 1920x1080 don't look like this, it's 100% sure. 1365x960 directly upscaled in 1920x1080 is more sharp

    for exemple in this 1080p screenshot http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=soul1080p000qe1.jpg
    the HUD and the "BATTLE 1 FIGHT!" 3D lettering are in 720p upscaled (hardware) in 1080p
    all is left is clearly 1365x960 rendering with a 720p software downscale and secondly a 1080p upscale (hardware), no doubt. and it's little blurry because this double rescale.
     
    #690 Quaz51, Aug 1, 2008
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  11. grandmaster

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    What a shame that we can't appreciate the extra resolution in 1080p mode :(
     
  12. Quaz51

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    extra resolution is always good but with a directly 1080p upscale (with 1080p HUD if it's possible) without a downscale before it's really better, sure
     
    #692 Quaz51, Aug 1, 2008
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  13. joker454

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    If the 1080p setup is indeed true, then it should be added to the top 10 list of most bizarre video game design decisions ever, just before creating more E.T cartridges than the number of available Atari 2600 consoles, and just after Atari passing on the NES.
     
  14. -tkf-

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    Haha classics there, this should be very easy to patch (i guess) so maybe there is a little bonus waiting for the owners.
     
  15. Quaz51

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    it isn't an exception, even probably a common practice. i verified and it's clearly the same thing for Ridge racer 6 (and probably some other over and sub720p)
    1080p output for RR6 is just the 720p mode upscaled with hardware. that is 1440x800 rendering software downscaled in 1280x720, add 720p HUD and upscale to 1080p with hardware, double rescale and little blurry result
    all this games are thought like 720p games only (even if extra pixel), at any moment they think to 1080p gamers. they think that 1080p upscale hardware of the 720p mode is sufficient, but it's not. if there is an upscale hardware in X360 it's to simplify devs work (microsoft speach) and then devs work only with just one resolution (720p)
     
    #695 Quaz51, Aug 1, 2008
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  16. Gitaroo

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    is Ace Combat 6 double rescale too?
     
  17. Quaz51

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    a demonstration with a perfect 1080p HDMI screenshot of RR6 without compression (you can even see the dithering pattern of the X360 output), a grandmaster screenshot
    http://upsilandre.free.fr/images/RR6 1080p-008.bmp

    RR6, like RR7, is totaly sharp rendering, no AA, no post-process, no blur effect (look 720p X360 screenshot or 720p and 1080p RR7 PS3 screenshot)
    RR6 rendering is 1440x800.

    with 1080p output RR6 look like this:

    [​IMG]



    i make a sharp 1440x800 test pattern (zoom):

    [​IMG]



    if you upscale the pattern directly in 1080p you obtain this, it's relatively sharp:

    [​IMG]



    if you downscale the pattern in 720p before and upscale in 1080p after you obtain this, it's blurry:

    [​IMG]

    reminder, RR6 1080p look like this:
    [​IMG]


    RR6 is clearly a game with double rescale (software + hardware) in 1080p
    it's the same for SC4 and probably some other
     
    #697 Quaz51, Aug 1, 2008
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  18. Quaz51

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    no, Ace combat is 1280x720 rendering, no problem in this case
     
  19. TheAlSpark

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    Are there any games that scale directly to 1080p on 360 then?

    Just to set the record straight for the list -> SC4 360 = 1365x960 with blur filter, PS3 = 1280x720?
     
  20. chachi

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    Of ones that software rescale to 720p first, or just in general? Most of the ones that I can remember are obviously upscaled everywhere and software downscaling is relatively new and/or rare.

    The preferable thing of course would be to just render the HUD at the native resolution and let the hardware do what it does. Any memory savings from smaller assets would be used up by having the extra frame buffer needed for the software rescale. And of course there's always actual MSAA.

    No, I think the "blur filter" is their software rescaling.
     
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