Neverending Upscaling/Resolutions/AA etc Thread #3 (Rules Post #1!)

Discussion in 'Consoles' started by Shifty Geezer, May 27, 2008.

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  1. -tkf-

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    Thanks for making the effort and posting these, do you have the PS3 version as well?
     
  2. grandmaster

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    I wish I did, but I'm not due to get it for another few days.
     
  3. inefficient

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    I agree it is quite blurry. Although these captures are certainly better than the last batch, the actually characters look even blurrier to me now.

    I admit with this technique the edge aliasing is less noticable than the edges in the PS3 shots. But the texture detail is shot to hell. All the nice detailing the artists worked hard on just blend into the soupy mix of colors.

    Is it just really bad texture sampling? Or actualy a blur filter? Blur filter is kind of pretty hard to believe. I want to give dev team the benifit of the doubt that they are not total numbskulls.

    I assume they did the downscalling from 1290x960 to 1280x720 on the GPU right? Maybe this blur is just a by product of a poor quality but fast resampling function they used.
     
  4. inefficient

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    You know these look really good. Much better than the ones grandmaster captured. Hardly any blur at all. Are these just press shots? Whats the dealio?
     
  5. grandmaster

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    My shots are 100% identical to what is coming out of the 360's HDMI port. I see blur on 1080p as you would expect, but it looks fine to me at 720p.
     
    #605 grandmaster, Jul 29, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2008
  6. Shifty Geezer

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    Why does blur have to be a numbskull decision? Personally I think there is some artistic merit to it. It may not be everyone's cup of tea, but IMO a spot of softening can help with 'realism', capturing a more cinematic feel, depending on how well it's done. We don't know what the choices here are, but I loathe to say that all blur effect in games is a gross mistake only a technically challenged game or an idiotic developer will make. In this particular case the question is why blur in the XB360 version and not the PS3 version? And why not render 720p on XB360?
     
  7. Arwin

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    I guess the obvious answer could be that it was easier to use no tiling and no antialiasing, and scale 1280x960 up or down instead, which may end up looking decent in 1080p and 720p, as the scaler takes off the rough edges automatically in both cases.

    That's not to say it could be done much better, but I can see this would be a pretty easy solution.
     
  8. TheBlackLodge

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    GM: Cracking good effort at a pants shot in that first 1080 shot ;)
     
  9. catisfit

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    Agreed. Also, games are designed to look best on a TV in motion, not while peering at zoomed screenshots on a PC monitor. I think sometimes we forget that :smile:

    Nobody followed up when I posted this before:

     
  10. inefficient

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    I just think it is generally a bad solution because it defeats the efforts of the artists who created the pixels in the first place. I like subtleties like wrinkles or freckles on a face, cool little engravings on a weapon, embroidery on clothing, and other details. Letting the engine just blur them over just to hide technical imperfections often results in major loss of artist intended detail.

    For tighter close up shots it's one thing. I mean even in Hollywood they often add some blur during really close up shots to hide some imperfections.

    But when the shot is fairly far and wide and the characters are only using a small fraction of total pixels on the screen I think you should make every pixel count toward detail.
     
  11. Shifty Geezer

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    Not if it's the artist(s) who choose to add it.
    Why does blur have to be a choice to cover technical imperfections? Why can it not be applied on top of a technically perfect engine to add an artist sense? You need only look at SD TV to see low-res blurred images can incorporate detail as fine as a single human hair. A subtle blur (half a pixel either side) doesn't destroy much detail and adds a little softness that gives a warmer, more natural feeling. Whereas of course a heavy handed blur can smudge out a game. Having seen lots of 'blurry' screenshots, I find I actually prefer a lot to the brutal sharpness of a pixel-perfect rendering.
    In Hollywood there is a lot of subtle blur, because a camera has a hard time capturing everything in perfect focus, especially in motion.
     
  12. chris100

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    Intersting, I suddenly found the blur filter in SC 4 retail version(360/PS3) makes the graphic be closer to CG-like.
     
  13. chachi

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    Urgh, no. If SD was so great why are we all using HD now? Do you also run your monitor at a non-native resolution, just to appreciate that "warm", "natural" feel there too? This was the worst thing about GTA4 for me, that people bought into the line that blurry meant "cinematic" or in any way better and game publishers apparently listened to them. I mean, I joked about it then, but I never thought it'd really actually happen. :(

    This is of course nothing to do with DOF or any similar effect with artistic merit, even a general blur can be used artistically, e.g. to simulate some vision impairing event in a game, but when used like this it's just not good.

    Are we sure these in-game blurry ones are really 720p? These ones don't look 720p much less 1280x960.
     
  14. obonicus

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    No no, blurry and orange means cinematic. :D
     
  15. -tkf-

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    And damn those handheld shots in the movies today, and whats with all that darkness, light things up so i can see what going on. And drop the music so i can hear what they say!

    Artistic choices used to hide limited power of consoles?
    Or is it real actual artistic choices?

    There is a world of difference.
     
  16. catisfit

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    Because SD stretched to 42" and beyond looks fugly.
     
  17. thambos

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    Does the PS3 support upscaling to 1080p for SC4?
     
  18. zarbaj

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    from what i read on other forums, no.
     
  19. Shifty Geezer

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    I'm gonna put my modhat on and put an end to the artistic choices of blur discussion, which isn't the topic of the technical analysis thread.
     
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