Neverending Upscaling/Resolutions/AA etc Thread #2 *Rules: post: #616 *

Discussion in 'Consoles' started by TheAlSpark, Jan 6, 2008.

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  1. Quaz51

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    Pixel Junk Monster is 1920x1080 and very good game :razz: (5€, buy now!)
     
  2. Juan Panson

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    Hey, new poster.

    Just wanted to ask if anyone else is getting the letterboxing in the MLB 08 PS3 demo? Why is it there?
     
  3. Afrikan

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    also about MLB The Show....

    I am wondering if it is the only 720p native 60fps game that is allowed to also run at 1080i/p

    can others give examples of other native 720p games that run at 60fps on the PS3.....that can be upscaled to 1080i/1080p


    the reason I ask this is because... it seems like some 980x1080 games (Ninja Gaiden and others) still maintain 60fps on my old Panny HDtv crt 1080i/480p set.....at 1080i...

    where as MLB The Show 07 (and 08) does not maintain 60fps at 1080i on these sets...

    It seems that any game that is 720p native and runs at 60fps will not maintain that frame rate if it is upscaled to 1080i for T.Vs that do not accept 720p.......does that make sense...
     
  4. Mefisutoferesu

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    MLB The Show runs at 30fps, mlb2k8 runs at 60fps.
     
  5. Afrikan

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    what in the world are you talking about....:???:
     
  6. Arwin

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    That is certainly possible. If a game runs at full 1920x1080p, the game will have twice the workload of 1280x720p. Generally, games that run on 1080i use the same frambuffers as 1080p games, so you can certainly get slowdown (though not always - if a game has 4xAA on 720p for instance, it can have 2xAA or no AA in 1080p to compensate)

    Incidentally, there are some 1080p @ 60fps games, that will obvioulsy also run at 60fps in 720p mode, like most NBA games for instance.
     
  7. Quaz51

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    the native resolution of MLB 08 is 1280x720p 2xAA (and 60fps i think) but rendering resolution is inferior (the game is rendering in a lower window, not very visible for TV with overscan, they take advantage of the overscan TV for better use of ressources )
    the lighting and shaders are very good
     
  8. DJ12

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    Sounds like Insomniac's presentations are finally getting through to people.
     
  9. Quaz51

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    but in this game the windows is more like 1190x670 than 1280x704
    on my TV if i don't use "justscan" i see only 1200x675 windows for 1280x720 native resolution, majority of TV have overscan, not rendering overscan area is a good optimization for overscaned TV owner.
     
  10. DJ12

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    Looks like they have done it taking 7% as the default overscan then.

    It is 7% on my TV (although I have changed it to 1% in the service menu) so I imagine that it what most TVs come with.

    I have to admit though "smart" sub 720p resolutions like this are far more acceptable to me than other sub 720p resolutions.
     
  11. Quaz51

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    yes 720p native resolution with 675p rendering resolution is a better choice than 675p native resolution. for majority of gamer (with TV overscan) the result isn't different than 720p native rendering whereas 675p native resolution is really different than 720p native resolution for everybody
     
  12. nintenho

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    so it renders at 675P but the internal scaler upscales that to 720P which makes jaggies look less bad? isn't that what halo 3 did or did it just output it at 640P?
     
  13. Quaz51

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    there is no upscale, the native resolution is 720p and the rendering resolution is 675p in 720p windows, zero upscale
    Halo3 is 640p native resolution = upscale
     
  14. TheAlSpark

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    I think he means 675p pixels are rendered for a 720p frame. That is, for 1:1 pixel-mapped displays, you would see black bars (ala R&C's 1280x704), but they would not be seen on a majority of displays due to overscanning.

    I think it just scales... I haven't seen any black bars when I set my display to no-overscanning. Interestingly enough, the music visualizer on the 360 also considers overscanning, showing some black bars on all sides.
     
  15. nintenho

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    ok I'm confused, what does 675P in a 720P window mean?:grin:

    edit: alstrong, so that would mean that it's about the same detail as Halo 3 on a non fixed-pixel display like a CRT?
     
  16. TheAlSpark

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    Take a 1280x720 canvas, render only 675p worth of pixels, center it, and display black on all sides. TV's will generally overscan, so you wouldn't see the black bars (or much of them).
     
  17. nintenho

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    that's what I thought. so the native resolution of 720P helps eliminate jaggies you'd see on a LCD but would still make it look like a 675P image on a CRT where the native resolution of the TV can change?
     
  18. Brad Grenz

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    Think of it this way. They render in 720p, but there is a thin black border all the way around the image. If your HDTV overscans you won't ever see it. If it doesnt, it will be like a small, black frame around the image. It's a way of optimizing performance without worrying about needing to scale your output and any artifacting that might cause.
     
  19. kyleb

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    It is so you actually see all 675p or whatever of the rendered image rather than upscaling that rendering resolution to fill the ouput resolution only to have TVs overscan the image, leaving only 640p worth of content or such being displayed.
     
  20. Afrikan

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    and if it hasn't been said already... you can fill the screen by going to the options menu in the demo....pause it and push left or right....and look for the screen setting...... just like in Warhawk....I'm not sure if it is the same with Uncharted...

    which brings me to this again.... It seems like SoCal SCEA guys are using the same method to able to output in 1080i for their games...(for those 1080i/480p folks)

    when I had Warhawk and played it on my old Panny.... the frame rate (which I'm assuming is 30fps) stayed the same when the PS3 outputed in 1080i for my T.V.

    I believe Warhawk is also a 720p native game but runs at 30fps.....compared to MLB's 60fps...

    like I posted earlier, The MLB game's frame rate dropped when outputing at 1080i on my T.V. (that does not have a built in scaler...)...but Warhawk's frame rate stayed the same...

    MLB 07 and MLB 08(demo) both run at a slower frame rate when outputting at 1080i...so I'm assuming MLB 09 will too, if they use the same method again...

    By using these two examples...would it be ok to assume that native 720p games that run at 60fps which are asked to upscale will continue run at 30fps...

    if this is the case... would it be too much to ask the Devs (who post on operationsports)to use a similar native resolution as Ninja Gaiden(which maintains 60fps) and have a native output of 980x1080 (or 1280x1080 :) ) instead of 1280x720 (which MLB is using now)

    it was unfortunate, but I played MLB 07 at 480p last year just to be able to play my season at 60fps.....it was a hassle to keep unchecking the 1080i option when ever I wanted to play this game...... I guess after you see how nice the game can look in HD...you don't care anymore and would just prefer to play in a higher frame rate......
     
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