Neverending Upscaling/Resolutions/AA etc Thread #2 *Rules: post: #616 *

Discussion in 'Consoles' started by AlBran, Jan 6, 2008.

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  1. MJP

    MJP
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    TV's don't scale arbitrary resolutions, they scale from a fixed set of standard input resolutions to whatever the native resolution is. You can't feed a monitor something like 1024 x 600 and expect it to happily display it (or 576p, if you're not in a PAL region). Heck, a lot of old 1080i sets won't even take 720p! This is is why the scaler is important, to allow the developer to use arbitrary backbuffer resolutions with no regard to what input the display will actually accept.
     
  2. -tkf-

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    And they had all this planned when they didn´t include a scaler chip. Sure :)
     
  3. novcze

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    Yeah sure, thats what I saying . . . we have 480i/p, 576i/p, 720p, 1080i/p.
    And developers must obbey that. On PC you can`t choose resolution outside accepted standard resolution (no need for scalers). Why should be consoles exception?
     
  4. AlBran

    AlBran Ferro-Fibrous
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    Results are only put in the resolutions thread when there is confirmation from a demo or a screen capture from hardware using a demo or retail game.
     
  5. MJP

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    Because on a console you can't say "well if our game doesn't run at over 20 FPS at 1280 x 720p, then get a new graphics card". If you can't hit 720p, then the next-best option would be 640 x 480.
     
  6. joker454

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    A '10 year product' will not be left to random chance, it will be planned in nauseating detail internally at the company. I'm sure all those movie related features I mentioned were either thought of, planned for, or mentioned as "wouldn't it be cool if..." type abilities, and they would rely on software to catch up over the years. Why else for example would they include gigabit ethernet? Games certainly don't need it.

    Regarding hardware scaling, we'll probably never know the true story of why it came to be what it is today. Maybe the issue was discovered part way and deemed to be not important. Maybe it was discovered too late and NVidia cut a better deal with Sony to compensate. Maybe everyone thought it worked until the first batch were made and both companies we're caught off guard when it didn't. Who knows.
     
  7. novcze

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    why not, it's just 240 lines, much better then gimmick with upscale and you get better framerate too. :lol:
     
  8. -tkf-

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    Yet they failed to include a scaler chip.
     
  9. Crossbar

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    Going by Kutaragi back in 2005 you may be right:

    I coudln´t find the original article where I read this, but this transcript seems credible.

    Mind you that was back in the days when the PS3 still had 2 HDMI outputs, but it may give some clues why they didn´t waste die space on scaler logic.

    Given that most of the PS3 games that are scaling the output are first generation games I don´t agree with people claiming it is becoming the norm. If we are looking at Sony first-party developers like Insomniac et al it is pretty obvious you can make goodlooking games without scaling. If I am assuming that games will improve in a similar way as in previous generations, within 2 years from now I would be very surprised if not the great majority of all new games are rendered at 720p or above.
    By that time the scaler logic will no longer give any obvious advantages and the logic will just hang around as unused die space as the built in scalers in the TV-sets will take over the job for larger displays.
     
    #1229 Crossbar, May 24, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2008
  10. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
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    But not at 1080p! And reading this rough translation...
    ...that seems to be what Kutaragi was getting at, with real resolution of a fixed-pixel display.

    [modhat]Regards the collapse of thread structure, I'll spawn off a new Neverending thread when there's some more resolution/game/tech discussion.[/modhat]
     
  11. _phil_

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    Neither would see any interest in that story blowing out.Fact is still that there is about 0,4 % chances , that no scaler or half a scaller was part of a business plan.
     
  12. DJ12

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    I don't know, Maybe Sony "foolishly" thought devs would make their games 720p at least with assessts their engine could manage.

    When you see games like Uncharted and Gears of War on both platforms is there any justification for sub 720p games because there aren't many (if any) that look better than Gears for the 360 or Uncharted for the PS3.
     
  13. Terarrim

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    Maybe they thought that devs would use the Cell, XDR memory (for graphics) far more than the third party devs are at the moment!
     
  14. Nesh

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    That doesnt suggest that the PS3 is viewed foremost as a blue ray player. Lets not forget that the Playstation platform was aimed to be an all in one entertainment device. Long before the invention of Blu Ray. Direct quote from your post "I have never remarked that PlayStation is a game console", includes the platform since its first inception not the PS3 and Kutaragi always envisioned the Playstation as the device that would sit next to every TV and offer everything in terms of digital entertainment in the future.

    Gaming is viewed as important as everything else.
     
  15. Hazuki Ryu

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    Gamestop has made a new comparison ps3 vs 360 what do you guys think that makes the ps3 version look blurrier than the 360 most of the time not counting on the games that run at lower resolutions than the 360 version, is it AF the scaler the color/contrast settings?

    http://www.gamespot.com/features/6191251/index.html
     
  16. DrJay24

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    It depends on the game I think. For Orange Box it was the Quincunx AA I think. For COD4 and some other games it was some lower res textures (less RAM, but better AF sometimes fools some folks).
     
  17. Hazuki Ryu

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    Cod 4 uses lower resolution textures on the ps3? I really haven't noticed from those screens.

    On Assassin's Creen the blurry textures seem result of worse AF ofcourse I can be wrong. (on the 3rd AC image really looks like its the AF)
     
  18. grandmaster

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    From memory I recall that Orange Box is just blurred, whereas Assassin's Creed uses Quincunx and has very different contrast.

    I don't think that CoD4 has massive differences. There are some higher quality textures on 360 whereas some effects on PS3 (such as the rain effect on the boat level) look better.
     
    #1238 grandmaster, May 24, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2008
  19. joker454

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