Neverending Upscaling/Resolutions/AA etc Thread #2 *Rules: post: #616 *

Discussion in 'Consoles' started by AlBran, Jan 6, 2008.

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  1. JaylumX

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    Comparing the 360 and PC versions, the shadowing in the '20' are similar. So i wonder does the shadowing method have any bearing on performance considering that the PC is more powerful?

    360
    http://yoda.dip.jp/Game/Grid/Grid_01_360.png

    PC
    http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=grid720bm6.jpg

    PS3
    http://yoda.dip.jp/Game/Grid/Grid_01_PS3.png

    Edit: Added PS3 version for comparisons

    Edit Redux: PC version now captured at 720
     
    #1021 JaylumX, May 11, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2008
  2. zarbaj

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    :oops::oops::oops:
     
  3. Statix

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    I haven't seen the XB360 version, so I don't know if it has all the fancy motion-blur and depth-of-field-blur effects the PS3 version I played has. The motion-blur is probably the biggest reason why GRID and DIRT looked so extraordinarily amazing and cinematic. It's a very slick effect. Anyone who's played these games 360 care to comment about the presence or absence of motion blur on the 360 versions?
     
  4. JaylumX

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    There is motion blur but not sure about DOF.
     
    #1024 JaylumX, May 11, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2008
  5. joker454

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    Your pics look eerily reminiscent of the GTA4 comparison pics, where PS3 has that blur and yellow/orange tint again. Could be a coincidence, but still I wonder if both games employ a similar upscale technique that is causing that on the PS3 build. Transparency effects (like smoke) will usually be blurrier on the PS3 version because you have to render them into smaller buffer (like 1/4 size or so) to help sustain performance.
     
  6. Statix

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    Does it seem like the PS3 version might be using an ambient occlusion post-process for shadows (a la GeOW2, Crysis) that's not in the 360 version? Seems like the shadows have a little more depth and gradation in the PS3 version, which might indicate something like that.

    Actually, I think I'm just looking too hard for that effect, because we never see it anywhere.
     
  7. one

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    You mean this one? It's from GDC08. Their previous game (DIRT) did use the previous version of PhyreEngine (PSSG) for PS3 so it's likely that they use it now. The overall blurriness of the PS3 version may be the result of DOF post effect by SPU too.

    http://watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20080228/3de.htm

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Cyan

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    I'm truely impressed with the level of knowledge from forumers, the tools grandmaster is using -awesome, btw- and Quaz's methods. Thanks for the contributions of these great forums.

    Anyways people can take a break from the fast pace of the last days because the next games which are coming out soon are exclusive. I'm talking about MGS4 and Ninja Gaiden 2 :mrgreen:. Pure awesomeness.
     
  9. Shifty Geezer

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    According to Quaz51 PS3 isn't being upscaled! And the pixel perfect dithering in the additional shadows proves that. If Quaz is to be believed on the 2xMSAA as well, the blur has to be a post effect, applied before an additional shadow pass.

    Looking at the images there's a couple of oddities IMO. The attached highlights areas on the rear of the car in DJ12's pics. PS3 is at the top.

    Zone 3, top left, shows the additional dithered PS3 shadow. Both have the same dark spot underneath.
    Zone 1 show what look like AA blocks along the light edge, more on the XB360 version, but PS3 isn't being blurred in this case. I don't know if it's AA as the blocks aren't neatly 4xMSAA, but that may be JPEG messing things up(?)
    Zone 2 shows considerable softness on the PS3 versus a jaggied edge on XB360

    Overall the PS3 images don't have a true white. The white of the car spoiler on PS3 is RGB(252,246,217). The overall colour-cast of the PS3 image isn't so yellow though - the pale sky just above the stands on the left is grey, whereas the XB360 version with that pale yellow applied as a multiply filter creates a yellowed sky. My explanation is a conditional filter that filters by intensity/hue, requiring a deliberate shader application. Unlike GTA4 where the softness was in part upscaling, it looks the similarities here are deliberate, with a deliberate softening and colour filter.
     

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  10. MazingerDUDE

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    300% shots again, there's some dithering going on in the PS3 shots


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    Ironically, it seems that, the dither effect gives PS3 version a warmer color

    (quite opposite to the GTA4 :lol:)
     
  11. Shifty Geezer

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    Again, the dithering is additional shadows. Outside of the shadows there's no dithering. As it's so prominent on the letters, I'm wondering if it's a technique solely for self-shadowing? The XB360 + PC letters have no localised occlusion. Actually the letters have an environment reflection on the PS3. Same with the windows, and these are dithered too. Could this be a raytracing process??? Would explain why the PC doesn't have it, which you'd expect if it was a GPU effect.
     
  12. one

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    Are their any details on how the UE3 in Gears of War 2 implemented SSAO?
     
  13. betan

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    Upscaling causing color bias? (Not that game is upscaling)
    Have you seen any other example of that?
    I mean it's a little weird speculation,
    Maybe it's the bias of their "fake" HDR.

    Man I saw those slides before, I cannot believe I missed that bullet.
    SPU post processing?
    I wonder how exactly they are doing that since cell read rate from vram is miserably low.
    RSX render on main mem? Just zbuffer? What about sync issues between RSX and CELL?


    I too think that may be SSAO which could explain why PC is lacking.
     
  14. Neb

    Neb Iron "BEAST" Man
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    If really then xbox360 and PC version might lack SSAO? = No PC buy then a small epen0r shrink.
     
  15. zarbaj

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  16. DJ12

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    Just to clarify I didn't take the those screen shots in the top of my post.
    Have you checked one of the images I attached to my post? I'd check myself but I have no "proper" art packages on my PC. (I did a quick test in Paint and the colour displayed by my TV is definitely not 252,246,217 it's not proper white 255,255,255 either but it's not far off)

    I am seeing white to the same level as in the 360 shot I linked to, I have full range and superwhite enabled using HDMI on my PS3 and I am seeing little to no difference between the colours in both versions.

    I am now convinced that full range and probably more importantly superwhite are not enabled on these PS3 shots we are using from yoda.jip.jp which is why everything has a yellowish tint to it.

    edit: In fact I cannot replicate the yellow tinge on the start line of the mustang race at all, disabling the colour cross filter, full range or superwhite. Do any other PS3 owners get the yellowish look?
     
    #1036 DJ12, May 11, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: May 12, 2008
  17. Galduta

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  18. V3

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    Nah no raytracing, I am sure it's SSAO. Those dithering are most likely high frequency noise from sampling. Blurring should remove it.

    XB360 doesn't have SSAO from those screens. I think the PC you can switch it on.
     
  19. Galduta

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    settings in the PC version

    PC

    http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/jonelo/capturas 2/GRID2008-05-1201-28-57-56.png

    360 ?

    http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/4510/racenr4.png

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    360

    http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/jonelo/capturas 2/Grid_02_360.png

    PC

    http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/jonelo/capturas 2/GRID2008-05-1201-06-28-25.png

    http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/jonelo/capturas 2/GRID2008-05-1116-59-20-54.png

    PS3

    http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/jonelo/capturas 2/Grid_02_PS3.png

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    PC

    http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/jonelo/capturas 2/GRID2008-05-1201-15-23-18.png

    360

    http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/jonelo/capturas 2/Grid_05_360.png

    PS3

    http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/jonelo/capturas 2/Grid_05_PS3.png
     
    #1039 Galduta, May 12, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: May 12, 2008
  20. Quaz51

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    the first is Bullshot probably oversampled 4x4 like this (2880p native resolution):
    http://images.gfx.no/467/467433/i_467433.jpg

    apparently the game is 720p AAx2 (visible on screenshots and on the oversampled source of bullshots)

    screenshots:
    http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg181/xblah/other/i_467432-1.jpg
    http://images.gfx.no/467/467425/i_467425.jpg
    http://images.gfx.no/467/467424/i_467424.jpg
    http://images.gfx.no/467/467426/i_467426.jpg (with little upscale in 768p, VGA grab?)


    Bullshots:
    http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg181/xblah/other/i_467431-1.jpg
    http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg181/xblah/other/i_467430-1.jpg (i think the source is "just" 1440p for him)
    http://i31.tinypic.com/67saxi.jpg
     
    #1040 Quaz51, May 12, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: May 12, 2008
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