Neverending Upscaling/Resolutions/AA etc Thread #2 *Rules: post: #616 *

Discussion in 'Consoles' started by TheAlSpark, Jan 6, 2008.

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  1. Quaz51

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    and more TMU
     
  2. Quaz51

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    it's bullshot, not screenshot, 5120x768 is not possible in realtime for the moment :)
    but yes i no doubt that MGS4 will be in 1024x768, just wait the confirmation
     
  3. Mintmaster

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    I don't think Xenos has less texture cache per TMU than R3xx/R4xx, and they were usually very good at AF. AF is quite predictable and cache friendly.

    If the cache is big enough to handle a few texture samples for many pixels without AF, it's big enough to handle lots of texture samples for a few pixels needing lots of AF. The rate at which your TMU samples move across the texture is the same in both scenarios.
    This was never a problem for R5xx when going up against G7x. AF hit was usually the same if not less, assuming G7x wasn't doing shimmery undersampling. Remember that Xenos can use its TMU in parallel to math, whereas RSX has to stall math operations until the texturing instruction is complete.
     
  4. TheAlSpark

    TheAlSpark Moderator
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    Quick reminder:

    http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1109345&postcount=112


     
  5. Rockster

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    RSX has 96KB of texture cache across 24 TMU's or 4KB per.
    Xenos has 32KB of texture cache across 16 TMU's or 2KB per.
     
  6. Mintmaster

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    That doesn't change any of the points I made above. If Xenos cache is inadequate for AF, then it would be inadequate for regular texturing too. The performance hit of AF doesn't really change with cache size.

    Imagine a 20x20 square with two texture layers applied. If you're looking at it head on, it'll run at 8 pix/clk on Xenos, so that's 50 clocks for 800 bilinear samples. If it's angled so that it's 5x20 on the screen, you need 4xAF for it to look sharp (i.e. 4 bilinear samples per pixel per texture layer). That means 2 pix/clk, but again that works out to 50 clock and 800 total bilinear samples. In both cases, we've samples the same region of the same textures at the same rate. There's no difference in cache requirements. You can even see in the post above yours that ATI is recommending to enable AF as opposed to using mip biasing in order to avoid cache problems.

    You'll only run into problems if the entire group of pixels in flight has a texture "footprint" that nears or exceeds the cache size. Because of the extra cycles needed for AF, though, you don't need as many simultaneously active pixels, so again we're back to AF not making any difference in cache requirements.

    From what I know, the main reason for extra cache in RSX compared to G71 is to minimize the perf. impact of XDR texturing.
     
  7. Rockster

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    This performance hit doesn't necessarily come from the additional samples/pixels/clk needed for AF but the mip/rip storage requirements compared to straight bilinear to even perform the blending. As Alstrong linked to, texture cache trashing because of main memory latency is a common problem.
     
  8. Mintmaster

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    There are no extra storage requirements for AF. I don't know of any GPU that did ripmapping.

    I don't see that written anywhere, nor do I see why this would affect AF any more than normal texturing.
     
  9. Butta

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  10. Quaz51

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  11. deepbrown

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  12. Quaz51

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    Haze is 1024x576 no AA
     
  13. deepbrown

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    Wow ok.

    At least it's locked 30fps.

    That's 576p right?
     
  14. MJP

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    Yeah, that's isomorphic 16/9.

    I'm trying to get used to the idea of sub-720p resolutions as I gear up for MGS4, but I think 576p is pushing it...especially on my brand-new 1080p plasma. :sad:
     
  15. Hazuki Ryu

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    Maybe this has been answered already and I'm sorry if it was but I'll ask anyway since I'm not very patiente with searching how much AA is added to the first xbox games on the x360? And what makes the games look more blurred than in the original xbox?
     
  16. TheAlSpark

    TheAlSpark Moderator
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    Usually 4xMSAA (Ninja Gaiden Black looks pretty awesome still). Some games might not have it at all.

    More blurred?
     
  17. deepbrown

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    I'm not surprised when they say things like this:

    http://www.ripten.com/2008/04/07/haze-final-words-on-ps3-exclusivity/
     
  18. Hazuki Ryu

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    Yes I haven't had my original xbox for quite a while now but whenever I put the DC version of shenmue II next to the xbox version on the xbox 360 the game just looks so much sharper on the dreamcast and the connection is the same both via VGA in 19inch LG monitors, and I dont remember the original xbox looking as blurred as this one does. My x360 is working at 1280x720 and with xbox 360 games it looks just normal.
     
  19. TheAlSpark

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    hm... that's odd. I find other BC games to be pretty good for IQ. But having a look around google, I came across a comparison between the DC and Xbox versions. The Xbox screenshots looked a bit blurrier already.

    http://park.fateback.com/differences.htm

    See the screenshots with the cop: http://park.fateback.com/001.Ab.WorkersPier.htm
     
  20. Statix

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    I'm a supporter of Quincunx (4x AA at 2x speed). Hope it's true just so KZ2 can put all these Quincunx haters to bed.
     
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