Need new monitor - nothing available

[EasyRaider]

My 5 year old CRT monitor needs to be replaced, it has developed slight rolling lines and an arced "shadow" visible on half the screen at times. But there is nothing worth buying.

Every LCD has at least 1 of 3 problems:
1) Crappy resolution (1280x1024)
2) Moronic pixel fault policy: I can't believe manufacturers expect people to accept multiple stuck pixels in the center area. A Christmas decoration is only useful so often
3) Too expensive for me (like $1200 or more)

I guess I won't be playing games or watching photos for quite some time...

(This is not so much a call for help as an observation of the sorry state of the display industry *sigh*)

(edit: remembered it's 5 years old, not 4)

 

[Reznor007]

You could just open your CRT monitor and replace all the aluminum electrolytic capacitors and restore it to like-new state. It's pretty easy to do, and would cost alot less than a new monitor. Just be careful when discharging the CRT. There's detailed instructions online if you google "cap kit"

 

[EasyRaider]

You could just open your CRT monitor and replace all the aluminum electrolytic capacitors and restore it to like-new state. It's pretty easy to do, and would cost alot less than a new monitor. Just be careful when discharging the CRT. There's detailed instructions online if you google "cap kit"

Thanks for the suggestion, but anything requiring me to do soldering is out of the question.

 

[_xxx_]

Why not buy a new CRT? It produces much better picture than any LCD anyway.

 

[EasyRaider]

High-end CRTs are hard to come by. I've checked the used market a few times, but I'm very skeptical about buying a used monitor without being able to see it first. I guess I'll keep looking.

And I disagree that a CRT is necessarily better than any LCD. Both technologies have their strengths and weaknesses (and both will be obsolete when SED or OLED production takes off). There's also the matter of size. I only have room for a 19" (18" visible) CRT, but I would like something a bit bigger now.

 

[mczak]

My 5 year old CRT monitor needs to be replaced, it has developed slight rolling lines and an arced "shadow" visible on half the screen at times. But there is nothing worth buying.

Every LCD has at least 1 of 3 problems:
1) Crappy resolution (1280x1024)
2) Moronic pixel fault policy: I can't believe manufacturers expect people to accept multiple stuck pixels in the center area. A Christmas decoration is only useful so often
3) Too expensive for me (like $1200 or more)
[/SIZE]

I think your biggest problem is 2). You can get quite decent 20 inch TFT's (with 1600x1200 resolution) at affordable prices (like the samsung 204t (super-pva) for about 500$). However, getting guaranteed defect-free panels is pretty much a problem at any size, resolution and prize. From the tests I've read though it may be possible to exchange a display even if the pixel errors still fit into the manufacturers policy (which is often following the quality class 2 nowadays). And, there is quite high probability you will get a zero defect display anyway. It should be noted too that TN+film panels defect pixels usually default to always on, whereas S-IPS defect pixels usually are always off, which is far less disturbing (not sure about M/PVA).

 

[EasyRaider]

However, getting guaranteed defect-free panels is pretty much a problem at any size, resolution and prize. From the tests I've read though it may be possible to exchange a display even if the pixel errors still fit into the manufacturers policy (which is often following the quality class 2 nowadays). And, there is quite high probability you will get a zero defect display anyway.

A few dark (sub) pixels at the corners or edges would be fine. But I won't accept the consumer hostile ISO class 2, and my impression is most companies stick to it strictly.

It should be noted too that TN+film panels defect pixels usually default to always on, whereas S-IPS defect pixels usually are always off, which is far less disturbing (not sure about M/PVA).

That's interesting. I didn't want TN anyway, since they all seem to be 6-bit and are known to have inferior viewing angle.

 

[PaulS]

You clearly haven't looked at all - there are masses of LCDs >1280x1024 at the price point you suggest - Dell, for example, have a bunch, including a 20" 4:3, and 20/24" widescreens. A number of others will at least offer you 1600x1200 20" 4:3 screens at a decent price. Dell will also let you continually swap out monitors until you get one without much of a pixel issue, so that's not a concern either.

 

[EasyRaider]

Dell will also let you continually swap out monitors until you get one without much of a pixel issue, so that's not a concern either.

They will? That's not the policy stated on their web page. Unfortunately Dell don't offer any interesting monitors at the moment. Moreover, I'm very hesitant to deal with Dell considering the lawsuit against Paul Dell.

You clearly haven't looked at all

STFU, you don't know.

 

[EasyRaider]

I give up. I officially retire from PC gaming for now.

The situation really strikes me as ridiculous. How many people would accept a policy stating that new glasses may come with scratches? Or clothes coming with non-removable stains? Yet TFT manufacturers maintain such a position...

 

[Frank]

Hyundai and Philips both have world-wide zero-defects policies. If even a single (sub-) pixel is bad, they'll replace it.

 

[EasyRaider]

Hyundai and Philips both have world-wide zero-defects policies. If even a single (sub-) pixel is bad, they'll replace it.

Philips' policy is only for a number of narrow, low-res models. I'm not sure about Hyundai, but they don't seem to offer anything remotely interesting anyway.

 

[poopypoo]

I give up. I officially retire from PC gaming for now.

The situation really strikes me as ridiculous. How many people would accept a policy stating that new glasses may come with scratches? Or clothes coming with non-removable stains? Yet TFT manufacturers maintain such a position...

Believe it or not, this is where buying in CHina comes in handy ^^;;

You'll pay a slight price premium here in Shanghai (as opposed to Taiwan or HK or newegg), but you can always test anything you buy, in the store, right there, right then. Sure you could argue that then who knows what your product has been through yadda yadda but when you see the monitors and the volume they sell you realize quickly that they're not scamming you. They're brand-spanking new. The actual downside is that, it being China, you can get stuck HAVING to test everything before you take it home, because it's made by ""Joe Zhejiang Electronics", which probably makes the same damn things for Sony, but you aren't really sure. This isn't the case with most LCD's though. Even a $1500 Viewsonic, they'll pop it together right in front of you (if they think you're serious), and you can stare at it for as long as you like, in as many resolutions as their test setup supports (plenty, in a nicer shop).

Sorry for the slightly OT, i just think it's sort of interesting.

 

[Guden Oden]

Well, I'm sure the price of an airplane ticket to shanghai and the general bother of travel more than makes up for the ability to test and replace the monitor in the store...

On a side-note, none of the 3 LCDs I own/have owned have had any defects at all, and I'm hardly the luckiest guy on the planet. One of these screens is even a sony, and their defect policy is basically stating in the manual that any stuck pixels on the screen is normal and nothing to be concerned about!

 

[PaulS]

They will? That's not the policy stated on their web page. Unfortunately Dell don't offer any interesting monitors at the moment. Moreover, I'm very hesitant to deal with Dell considering the lawsuit against Paul Dell.

I'm not sure why the lawsuit is relevant to whether they're good monitors at a good price from a company that isn't going to stop trading anytime soon.

There have been many, many threads about Dell monitors and the ease with which people have had them swapped out. HardOCP have had a bunch in their monitor section over the last 2 years, and I'm sure there have been some here too. It's pretty well known, even if it's not stated on their website (which I'm taking your word for).

What do you mean "don't offer any interesting monitors"? The 2405FPW is easily the best at it's pricepoint, and isn't matched by anything that isn't twice as expensive. What feature are you looking for that none of them offer?

STFU, you don't know.

The fact you're throwing around completely inaccurate and baseless statements would suggest you haven't looked as hard as you've suggested.

 

[EasyRaider]

I'm not sure why the lawsuit is relevant to whether they're good monitors at a good price from a company that isn't going to stop trading anytime soon.

It isn't, but I don't want to support Dell with my money.

There have been many, many threads about Dell monitors and the ease with which people have had them swapped out. HardOCP have had a bunch in their monitor section over the last 2 years, and I'm sure there have been some here too. It's pretty well known, even if it's not stated on their website (which I'm taking your word for).

Just a couple a days ago a person posted a complaint that Dell refused to replace a 2005FPW because of really bad backlight bleeding (I saw photos of it). The end result was returning it and buying a different brand. It seems like you're at the whim of whoever happens to process your request.

What do you mean "don't offer any interesting monitors"? The 2405FPW is easily the best at it's pricepoint, and isn't matched by anything that isn't twice as expensive. What feature are you looking for that none of them offer?

The 2405FPW is really expensive for the time being. (No, we don't get any coupons in Norway.) It's been reported to show clearly higher lag in side-by-side comparisons with other monitors. It lacks HDCP, which may or may not be important. It's unnecessarily big and bright (for me), but colour accuracy, black level and image uniformity aren't that great. Finally, I don't like the dark bezel, I would prefer a TCO 03 version.

I could write a similar list of issues I have with their other models.

The fact you're throwing around completely inaccurate and baseless statements would suggest you haven't looked as hard as you've suggested.

Which of my statements are "completely inaccurate and baseless"?

 

[PaulS]

Just a couple a days ago a person posted a complaint that Dell refused to replace a 2005FPW because of really bad backlight bleeding (I saw photos of it). The end result was returning it and buying a different brand. It seems like you're at the whim of whoever happens to process your request.

There is a variation between representatives, but this is the first I've heard of them refusing to swap a monitor out, and I've read a hell of a lot of comments on these models over a long period of time. I'd suggest there was something specific about his case that was a problem, or he completely downplayed the problem to them.

It's been reported to show clearly higher lag in side-by-side comparisons with other monitors.

I've seen those same comparisons, and they completely gloss over the fact that the lag demonstrated in those comparisons simply isn't felt when in use as a single monitor. There's a reason it's a very popular model, and crushing lag that indicates a significant delay in just moving a window isn't it. Hint: it doesn't exist. Try one for yourself and you'll see.

It lacks HDCP, which may or may not be important.

The new models they're coming out with have HDCP, but fair point. That said, I'm not sure the competition is exactly overflowing with HDCP models either.

It's unnecessarily big and bright (for me)

The brightness can be changed. Many people have chosen to do so with this model, and have been happy with the results.

but colour accuracy, black level and image uniformity aren't that great.

Colour accuracy seems much on a par with the competition in the LCD market, and they've been shown to better the Apple models in comparisons. Black levels are reasonable although not spectacular, and image uniformity is great.

Whilst you have some preferences, you don't list any of these in your original post, preferring instead to just make sweeping comments about every LCD on the market without specifying these problems you have.

Which of my statements are "completely inaccurate and baseless"?

Every LCD has at least 1 of 3 problems:
1) Crappy resolution (1280x1024)
2) Moronic pixel fault policy: I can't believe manufacturers expect people to accept multiple stuck pixels in the center area. A Christmas decoration is only useful so often
3) Too expensive for me (like $1200 or more)

Every single one of the above has been demonstrated to be false. Clearly not every LCD has a 1280x1024 resolution. A number of people in this thread have pointed you to manufacturers who don't have crappy return policies. Plenty of LCDs cost less than $1200 - the majority of consumer ones, even.

So yeah, I'd say those were inaccurate and baseless.

 

[EasyRaider]

The new models they're coming out with have HDCP, but fair point. That said, I'm not sure the competition is exactly overflowing with HDCP models either.

The Samsung 244T has HDCP, a premium panel, and even costs considerably less at the moment.

The brightness can be changed. Many people have chosen to do so with this model, and have been happy with the results.

Colour accuracy seems much on a par with the competition in the LCD market, and they've been shown to better the Apple models in comparisons. Black levels are reasonable although not spectacular, and image uniformity is great.

My point is, I'd happily trade in some size and brightness for better IQ or lower price.
(edit) Image uniformity is good for its size, but only average compared to smaller 17" and 19".

Every single one of the above has been demonstrated to be false. Clearly not every LCD has a 1280x1024 resolution. A number of people in this thread have pointed you to manufacturers who don't have crappy return policies. Plenty of LCDs cost less than $1200 - the majority of consumer ones, even.

Read again. I wrote "at least 1 of" not "all of". Of course every LCD doesn't have all of these issues. There may even be some which have none of them, but in my very extensive search I had not found one (and still haven't).