Need a graphics card that will work on a Intel 440LX chispet

Discussion in '3D Hardware, Software & Output Devices' started by AzBat, Jan 31, 2003.

  1. AzBat

    AzBat Agent of the Bat
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    All,

    My Diamond Fire 1000 Pro(Permedia2) is finally giving up the ghost and I need to replace it. This is a work computer and I've been permitted to get another card for it. However, it's a Dell Dimension XPS D333 that has the Intel 440LX chipset. From what I'm able to gather it looks like a AGP 1.0 spec motherboard. I saw a message that said that I might have a problem finding a modern AGP graphics card that will work since the AGP slot runs at 3.3v instead of the 1.5v that it is used today. Is this right? If so, what options do I have? Thanks in advance for your help.

    P.S. This computer also has a 200W power supply.

    Tommy McClain
     
  2. pascal

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    I think they are right.

    What about a PCI card?
    Maybe an original TNT AGP.
     
  3. AzBat

    AzBat Agent of the Bat
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    Pascal,

    Thanks for the reply.

    I hadn't thought of going PCI. However, I definitely need something that has OpenGL support under Windows 98. I basically have one program that uses 3D and it uses OpenGL. Anyway, I'll check on some PCI cards. It would be nice if it was newer than the TNT series.

    Tommy McClain
     
  4. arjan de lumens

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    3.3 volt shoudn't be much of a problem unless you try to insert an AGP 8X capable card - all AGP 1.0 and 2.0 cards are required to either tolerate 3.3V or else be keyed to prevent insertion into a 3.3V AGP slot. But IIRC, old 440LX motherboards tend to have trouble feeding modern graphics cards all the power they need across the AGP slot. I would guess that a Geforce4MX (non-AGP8X version) or a Radeon9000 would work fine, but I can of course not guarantee anything.
     
  5. AzBat

    AzBat Agent of the Bat
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    Arjan,

    Thanks for the reply.

    I think I've found that the Dimension XPS D333 motherboard is one of the few that have problems working with AGP 2x cards. Fortunately, people have had good sucess with PCI cards. So I'm lining up my options and looks like they are very short.

    ATI Radeon 7000 or 7500
    NVIDIA GeForce2 MX200 or MX400
    NVIDIA GeForce4 MX420 or MX440

    Those are definitely better than a TNT. Any opinions? Driver support for OpenGL in Windows 98 is required. I don't think price is much of a concern considering these all should cost less than $100. Not really going to be playing any games since this is a work computer, but I might try to after hours if they're any good. :)

    Thanks in advance for your reply.

    Tommy McClain
     
  6. Joe DeFuria

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    If you definitely don't want to try any AGP cards, then your best bet would be the GeForce4 MX.
     
  7. AzBat

    AzBat Agent of the Bat
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    Joe,

    Thanks man. I definitely don't want to go AGP. So I guess GeForce4 MX is my choice. I guess I can stop trying to install and run 3DMark. ;)

    Tommy McClain
     
  8. AzBat

    AzBat Agent of the Bat
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    OK. After some PMs I'm going to change my stance on not buying an AGP card. I've decided to take some advice and go to Best Buy tomorrow and get a Radeon 9000 Pro AGP, if they have any. If it doesn't work I can take it back and go with something else.

    Here's a list of the cards I'll be looking to get in order of preference...

    1. ATI Radeon Pro 9000 64MB AGP - $99.99
    2. BFG Asylum GeForce4 MX440 64MB AGP - $99.99
    3. BFG Asylum GeForce4 MX440 64MB PCI - $99.99
    4. PNY Verto GeForce4 MX420 64MB AGP - $89.99
    5. PNY Verto GeForce4 MX420 64MB PCI - $89.99
    6. eVGA.com GeForce4 MX420 64MB PCI - $89.99
    7. ATI Radeon 7500 64MB PCI - $79.99
    8. eVGA.com GeForce2 MX200 32MB PCI - $59.99

    I probably won't get a chance to install it till Monday, but once I do I'll let everybody know what I end up keeping and what didn't work.

    Thanks for everybody's help.

    Tommy McClain
     
  9. AzBat

    AzBat Agent of the Bat
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    Naturally Best Buy didn't have my top 2 choices. So I went with #3. Figured I'd rather have the faster of the chips that had available even though it's on the PCI bus. Hopefully the install will go fine.

    One thing I noticed was what was in the box, or what wasn't in the box. I haven't received or bought a new card since the Voodoo5. So it was interesting to see that the BFG box only included 1 CD, an anemic installation pamphlet and the card. The card wasn't even wrapped in a anti-static bag. Is this how retail cards shipped now, or this just how BFG does it? Looks like their getting cheap.

    Tommy McClain
     
  10. pascal

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    I hope you will enjoy your new toy :wink:
     
  11. Tagrineth

    Tagrineth SNAKES... ON A PLANE
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    I know what people are going to say about this, but...

    If you really want an AGP card, the Voodoo series is very famous for compatibility in that sector... and the 761 miniport isn't in too bad a shape really ;)

    In any case, 3dhq is working hard on finalising their OpenGL ICD (not miniport, ICD ;))... shouldn't be too much longer.


    Sorry, had to say it :)
     
  12. AzBat

    AzBat Agent of the Bat
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    Toy? This is suppose to be for a work computer. ;) Though working for my dad has it's advantages. Hehe :)

    LOL :) That's great to know, really! :) I have a Voodoo3 that I won at a Game Developer Conference, but that's in my desktop at home. Before I got laid off at JPA the latest graphics card I had received was a Voodoo5 5500 AGP. Unfortunately I let my cousin "borrow" it awhile back. Not sure when I'll get it back though. During my 4 years working for JPA, Derek Perez only sent me 2 graphics cardA, a RIVA 128ZX and I think a RIVA TNT. At least I got the nifty metal cases to go with them. :D Anyway, this will definitely be an interesting experiment. I didn't get a chance to install it today, but maybe tomorrow. There's no rush.

    Tommy McClain
     
  13. Tagrineth

    Tagrineth SNAKES... ON A PLANE
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    Hehehe!

    'nother thing in V5's favour is that pretty much all those other cards get totally crippled by the lack of AGP.

    Give it a try, see if it'll run what you need it to. 3dfx mostly maintained compatibility rather than performance in their drivers... but there are bugs (that probably won't be fixed for a while yet).
     
  14. Crusher

    Crusher Aptitudinal Constituent
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    Eh, sorry I didn't read this sooner, could have saved you a few bucks. There are lots of used GeForce 2's for sale on AnandTech's forums these days, usually $25-35.
     
  15. AzBat

    AzBat Agent of the Bat
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    Tagrineth,

    Can you give me that URL for the latest Voodoo5 drivers? I'll want to download them once I get my V5 back, which might be next month. I'll be running it on my home machine. Don't really want to run it on this machine I have here at work. Thanks in advance.

    Crusher,

    If you'll see the first message, the card I was buying is for a machine at work. My boss, who is also my dad, bought it using the company credit card. He wanted to buy something new that had a warranty, tech support and could be taken back to a store for an exchange or refund just in case it didn't work. Now, if I was buying a card for myself, then I would have used any number of sources.

    Tommy McClain
     
  16. Joe DeFuria

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    Hi Tommy,

    It will be an interesting experiment, but for your particular need with OpenGL, I would be surprised if the Voodoo works out. But hey, you can't beat "free." ;)

    Oh, and for drivers, I would check here:

    http://www.voodoofiles.com/
     
  17. AzBat

    AzBat Agent of the Bat
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    Free? Yeah, I worked hard for that one; :D Anyway, I'm not really interested even experimenting with the Voodoo5 on this office computer. I have some very expensive, copy-protected software on here that I don't want anything to happen to. It's scary enough that I'm going to put in a new graphics card as it is. :)

    Thanks for the link. I saw the 3dhq drivers Tagrineth mentioned. Found their site at www.tdhq.net. Hopefully Tagrineth will notify everybody once they have the ICD done.

    Tommy McClain
     
  18. Tagrineth

    Tagrineth SNAKES... ON A PLANE
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    It'll be on the front page, of course ;)

    They're taking way too long though... blarg...

    /me thwaps Aquoues wherever he is
     
  19. AzBat

    AzBat Agent of the Bat
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    OK, the SOB is installed!

    :D LOL

    My computer seems to be running fine and my OpenGL app looks lots better. I will say one thing, BFG is a joke of a retail company. Everything on the CD was directly from NVIDIA(ie reference drivers and demos). I installed and ran all the demos like Bubble, Toy Soldiers, Creature and Chameleon. Ummm, didn't I see all this back at GDC 2001? ;) I _tried_ running the GeForce4 Ti demos. Needless to say they were slow. :) I don't see how BFG's products are worth what they're asking for. Nothing above and beyond reference board and drivers from what I see. Starting to wonder if I should return this card and get the ATI Radeon 7000 Pro instead. Come on Joe convince me, I know you want to me to. :)

    BTW, the drivers that came with it are 4.13.01.3082 dated 7-16-02. I see NVIDIA has released 41.09 back on 12-3-02. Would it be worth installing these if I wasn't going to take it back?

    Tommy McClain
     
  20. Joe DeFuria

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    Heh...

    Well, the GeForce4 MX and Radeon 7000 series are both DX7 class cards. They have hardware T&L support, but no pixel shaders. Neither of those cards is in the same league as the Geforce4 Ti, or Radeon 9000.

    As much as I'd like to 'convince' you to go for the Radeon 7000, there really is no justification to. It's probably a little slower, and the GL drivers for that chip probably aren't as good. The 2D quality on the display may be better though.

    Again, if you could get your hands on the 9000, that would likely be the best bet. :p
     
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