My First Radeon!

[homerdog]

So this may not be the correct forum since the decision's already been made, but my first Radeon GPU will be here tomorrow! It is an HD7950 Boost I found on the Egg for $209.99 and comes with 3 free sweetass games. I've used NVIDIA since my 6600GT just cause price/perf between red and green is usually a wash and I'm already used to the NVIDIA drivers and utilities.

The silly part is that I already have a 2GB GTX670, but I am putting together my first small PC (mITX based on the Cooler Master Elite 120 Advanced) for my little bro to use. I may swap out the 670 in my main rig for the 7950 and let my bro rock the geforce. I like having 3GB VRAM in these crazy next gen console days .

So, any tips from Radeon users? I always used Rivatuner to tweak the geforces; is there something better for Radeon? Also are there any must-do driver tweaks I should be aware of?

This is gonna be fun!

 

[Grall]

There's a bit less of a need for tweakers with radeon cards, since you have built-in basic overclocking tools in the control panel applet itself (overdrive.) Sadly, NV completely lacks this, at least these days. In the past you could add a registry key and get sliders for memory and core clock but it was a long time ago since I last heard that that worked...

 

[Albuquerque]

The newer catalyst application profiling system takes a bit of getting used to, but it IS there. I like NV's method a whole lot better on that front. Basic overclocking abilities are included with AMD's overdrive tab, exactly as Grall described. However, what you'll probably find is that you can turn the overdrive slider all the way to the "top" and still be stable, and that's because the overdrive sliders have a glass ceiling. There is also no control for overvolting, although overvoltage control is (mostly) firmware locked in the latest releases of the 7000 series cards.

If you want to really get working on your overclock (and any possibility of extra voltage) you'll want an external overclocking utility. Rivatuner can work just fine with it, I personally use the Sapphire Trixx utility that came with my Sapphire card.

 

[Malo]

MSI Afterburner works with any card right?

 

[homerdog]

There's a bit less of a need for tweakers with radeon cards, since you have built-in basic overclocking tools in the control panel applet itself (overdrive.) Sadly, NV completely lacks this, at least these days. In the past you could add a registry key and get sliders for memory and core clock but it was a long time ago since I last heard that that worked...

Yes I remember that. Coolbits!

As for tweaking I really mean setting different profiles for games which may not support AA or vsync and the like.

The newer catalyst application profiling system takes a bit of getting used to, but it IS there. I like NV's method a whole lot better on that front. Basic overclocking abilities are included with AMD's overdrive tab, exactly as Grall described. However, what you'll probably find is that you can turn the overdrive slider all the way to the "top" and still be stable, and that's because the overdrive sliders have a glass ceiling. There is also no control for overvolting, although overvoltage control is (mostly) firmware locked in the latest releases of the 7000 series cards.

If you want to really get working on your overclock (and any possibility of extra voltage) you'll want an external overclocking utility. Rivatuner can work just fine with it, I personally use the Sapphire Trixx utility that came with my Sapphire card.

Hmm, so application detection doesn't work like it does with NVIDIA? In the later driver releases NVIDIA's app detection has gone from acceptable to pretty darn good. It still doesn't always autodetect all the games that are installed, but it's easy enough to add them manually as the driver now remembers all the games you're recently played. Cool stuff!

BTW I won't be doing any serious overclocking considering the tiny case. Even for mITX, the Elite 120 is not known for good airflow although it should be enough for stock speeds.

 

[Albuquerque]

I didn't mean to insinuate that app detection doesn't work -- it certainly does. AMD's is purely manual unfortunately; you can add an executable, and then configure all your 3D override settings for that app, in the same functional way that you can with NVIDIA. However, I personally like NV's interface a lot better for that feature, and I feel like NV has a few more options than AMD does (special flags for overriding the app auto-detecting stuff, special settings for how multi-card rendering is handled, etc.)

Since you're a single card guy like me, it's probably less of an issue. Just a preference thing really. And yes, MSI Afterburner is a great utility for Radeon overclock tweaking.

 

[Grall]

Hmm, so application detection doesn't work like it does with NVIDIA?

I'm not sure how AMD profiles work right now - unless they've re-vamped them in the quarter-year or so they used to be really bad. You created a profile and it made a snapshot of your current 3D and overclocking settings (minus power ceiling, which could not be changed via profiles), and then if you ever wanted to change any setting you had to delete that profile and create it all over again. You literally could not edit them, at all, and it was like that for years.


And yeah, that was awful. But, maybe things have changed? All I ever did during my AMD days was to create one profile with the GPU downclocked to generate less heat, and the other to damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead...

 

[Babel-17]

MSI Afterburner works with any card right?

IIRC, any reference card and all MSI cards. Lots of cards use voltage regulators that aren't reference and Afterburner doesn't have the ability to support overvolting those. Other adjustments like clock and memory speeds, yes, it can adjust those.

For example, on my Gigabyte 6870OC overvolting was not supported but on my HIS 7950 it is.

 

[orangpelupa]

Radeonpro also a nice took to have. It easy to make profile and overclock. But it can't overclock pass and ceiling

 

[homerdog]

I didn't mean to insinuate that app detection doesn't work -- it certainly does. AMD's is purely manual unfortunately; you can add an executable, and then configure all your 3D override settings for that app, in the same functional way that you can with NVIDIA. However, I personally like NV's interface a lot better for that feature, and I feel like NV has a few more options than AMD does (special flags for overriding the app auto-detecting stuff, special settings for how multi-card rendering is handled, etc.)

Since you're a single card guy like me, it's probably less of an issue. Just a preference thing really. And yes, MSI Afterburner is a great utility for Radeon overclock tweaking.

Definitely a single GPU guy, so that's good news.

I am a little confused though when you say it's "purely manual". On my NVIDIA cards I can set the profile for Titan Quest to force the highest possible AA levels, save it, and forget it. Every time I run TQ.exe the profile is automatically activated. Is that not how it works with the AMD driver?

I'm not sure how AMD profiles work right now - unless they've re-vamped them in the quarter-year or so they used to be really bad. You created a profile and it made a snapshot of your current 3D and overclocking settings (minus power ceiling, which could not be changed via profiles), and then if you ever wanted to change any setting you had to delete that profile and create it all over again. You literally could not edit them, at all, and it was like that for years.

Um, that is terrible. I can't ever remember NVIDIA profiles being that bad, and my memory goes back a pretty long way. Hopefully this has been remedied.

IIRC, any reference card and all MSI cards. Lots of cards use voltage regulators that aren't reference and Afterburner doesn't have the ability to support overvolting those. Other adjustments like clock and memory speeds, yes, it can adjust those.

Definitely not interested in overvolting, so that should be fine.

Oh man, this is gonna be a good weekend.

PS I look forward to having two cards in the same performance bracket from different vendors. I can finally put to rest all this hearsay and see for myself which is better. I realize the 670 is a faster card, but not enough to make a huge difference IMO, so I'll be judging based on factors other than FPS.

 

[Babel-17]

Regarding Afterburner, read the readme as IIRC to enable advanced overclocking you have to manually type in a phrase into a .cfg file.

UnofficialOverclockingEULA = 1
UnofficialOverclockingMode = I confirm that I am aware of unofficial overclocking limitations and fully understand that MSI will not provide me any support on it

That might be it and IIRC you also need to disable "read only" from the file properties of MSIAfterburner.cfg so as to type that in.

But without upping the volts that feature might not be useful.

 

[itsmydamnation]

if you want to do profiles use radeon pro.

this coming from somone who has had

9500pro>9800pro>X800>X800XTPE>4850>6970> and soon to be 290.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

BTW I won't be doing any serious overclocking considering the tiny case. Even for mITX, the Elite 120 is not known for good airflow although it should be enough for stock speeds.

The GPU should be quite ok in there as it's right at the side of the case breathing from outside of the case, but I can see your CPU not liking it

 

[Wynix]

Coincidently i also purchased a 7950 today, i bought a XFX Double D 7950 (Voltage locked ).
I caved due to the lacklustre offerings from both vendors, a cheap 7950 + never settle bundle is the best deal i see available for the next month or so and i can not wait much longer.

I'm already regretting it as i REALLY want downsampling and AMD are on a crusade against offering it ATM.
One upside is the card is short and will easily fit into my crappy case.

 

[homerdog]

if you want to do profiles use radeon pro.

this coming from somone who has had

9500pro>9800pro>X800>X800XTPE>4850>6970> and soon to be 290.

Radeon Pro huh? I'll look that up. What's wrong with the profile management in the driver?

 

[itsmydamnation]

Radeon Pro huh? I'll look that up. What's wrong with the profile management in the driver?

exposes a few more options, looks a lot better, intergrates normal driver settings with SMAA, FXAA and SweetFX settings altogether in one place.

not as needed as it once was, still a fair bit better then CCC

 

[homerdog]

The little PC is almost built. Just need to tidy up the cabling.

BTW building in a mITX case is pretty hard. Good thing this ain't my first rodeo. Basically any problem you've every encountered while building normal PCs, you will experience all at once

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Which CPU, MB and CPU cooler do you have in there by the way?

Yeah building a regular size case is a breeze compared to some issues you will run into small form factor cases, your case has a nice solution for adding more room for the PSU though

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I'm not sure how AMD profiles work right now - unless they've re-vamped them in the quarter-year or so they used to be really bad. You created a profile and it made a snapshot of your current 3D and overclocking settings (minus power ceiling, which could not be changed via profiles), and then if you ever wanted to change any setting you had to delete that profile and create it all over again. You literally could not edit them, at all, and it was like that for years.


And yeah, that was awful. But, maybe things have changed? All I ever did during my AMD days was to create one profile with the GPU downclocked to generate less heat, and the other to damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead...

Thankfully it isn't nearly that bad or basic anymore. You can do per application settings now, and it gets automatically applied whenever you launch that application. I almost never use it though. I'm too old to want to tinker with stuff anymore.

The little PC is almost built. Just need to tidy up the cabling.

BTW building in a mITX case is pretty hard. Good thing this ain't my first rodeo. Basically any problem you've every encountered while building normal PCs, you will experience all at once

Heh, I've done so many of them now that it's fairly easy now. I still remember the first mini ITX case build I did though. The case was so small and my CPU cooler so relatively large (for the case) that I couldn't screw in one corner of the MB. Also, I hate those tiny screws you have to use for slim optical drives.

Oh and this was before most cases started to have user friendly metal edges in their cases. I ended up with half a dozen cuts on my hands due to the sharp metal edges. I ended up having to use some rubber insulation stripped from wires to line some of the metal edges because I was afraid of them cutting into cables or wires and shorting the system.

Regards,
SB

 

[homerdog]

Which CPU, MB and CPU cooler do you have in there by the way?

Yeah building a regular size case is a breeze compared to some issues you will run into small form factor cases, your case has a nice solution for adding more room for the PSU though

i5-3470S, Gigabyte H87 with WiFi, 2x4GB DDR3-1600MHz, stock cooler (not sure which aftermarket coolers will fit).

Even though my case as an extrusion for the PSU as you mentioned, I still went with the sff Silverstone 450W Bronze PSU. It give a lot more room inside the case, especially above the CPU.

Got the PC up and running last night. Now my bro is playing Tomb Raider on it with his girlfriend watching