MPAA Caught Spider-Man 2 bootlegger; future considerations

[Nite_Hawk]

Hi Guys, if you haven't heard the MPAA used night vision goggles to catch some teenager wearing night vision goggles. This got me thinking about things. As technology makes recording equipment smaller and smaller, what do you think will happen when you can have a camcorder as an array of microscopic cameras on yours hat? Or even record the videostream going from your eye to your brain? (Granted, this would be pretty crappy given your tendency to move your head and the low perepheral resolution).

It just strikes me that trying to regulate this is madness in the long run.

Nite_Hawk

 

[RussSchultz]

I think watching what was recorded in somebody's brain would be really disconcerting.

I know my eyes wander, no matter how interested I am. I yawn, I blink, I look left and right, I tilt my head.

I think it would make for a pretty poor second hand viewing experience.

I don't know what the arts industry is going to do. Between the growing assertion that its a right to not pay for movies and/or music, and the increasing means of copying, they're in between a rock and a hard place.

I think the only real solution is make sure that the difference between paying and not paying is worth it. No idea what that would be, though (which is why I'm not in the music industry marketting business)

 

[nutball]

I think the only real solution is make sure that the difference between paying and not paying is worth it. No idea what that would be, though (which is why I'm not in the music industry marketting business)

One strategy they might consider trying would be producing music that's worth listening too, and movies that are worth watching, rather than bland overpriced formulaic pap.

That's probably too radical for the poor darlings though (work? moi! ), my money is on the introduction of the death penalty for file sharers and bootleggers. I mean if you've got the night-vision goggles, why not the high-powered rifle too?

 

[RussSchultz]

Why should the quality of the product matter as to whether its OK to steal?

 

[Nite_Hawk]

Why should the quality of the product matter as to whether its OK to steal?

Well, infringe on copyright.

Intellectual Property is kind of a wierd beast, it doesn't really jive with what is natural. People are already like recording devices. We see, we hear, and we remember, but we arn't all that great at the details (Better at themes though). We talk about the movie with other people, we relay the plot, the problems, the quality of the special effects, etc. It is natural for people to share information with each other, and I think *that* is going to be the hardest thing for the RIAA to combat, is that it is natural for people to share and trade information, so people are going to do so.

This really stinks for the music/movie industry though, because their entire business is built on distribution. I'm not sure how they are going to be able to fix it, but I don't think trying to rely on catching people is going to be the answer. Unless they want to be constantly monitoring everything everyone does, it's too difficult to catch people.

Nite_Hawk

 

[Heathen]

One strategy they might consider trying would be producing music that's worth listening too, and movies that are worth watching, rather than bland overpriced formulaic pap.

and people will be more inclined not to steal good music/films? Urm...

 

[nutball]

Why should the quality of the product matter as to whether its OK to steal?

I didn't say it did.

Concepts such as copyright, intellectual property, etc., and the idea of theft of such stuff are quite recent inventions. Where in Ye Olde Bible does it say "Thou Shalt Not Share Thy MP3s With Thy Neighbour?", for example?

The idea of IP, copyright, patents, etc., is to protect the rights of people who make *valuable* contributions to human society through their creative intellectual processes. Most people in society are quite prepared to accept the restrictions that the granting of these rights places on them as consumers of said creative works.

This willingness and acceptance has limits though. The law is not an absolute standard couched in terms of some external reference frame (at least it isn't here in the UK, maybe the US is different). The law is made by the collective will of the people; laws which the majority of people think are stupid, or wrong, get changed. It takes a while, but eventually they get changed.

Ergo, the definition of what is, and what is not, valuable intellectual property is something that is set ultimately by the will of the people.

If folks churning out these "creative" works of "intellect" start to fail to meet their end of the bargain, produce utter crap and charge extortionate prices for it because they are hiding behind copyright, patent, etc. law, then common folks will start to treat the whole thing as a bit of a joke. Peddling crap for high prices devalues the whole concept of IP, and given time the whole legal edifice could come tumbling down.

Intellectual Rights are all well and good, but as with many other things in society, with Rights come Responsibilities.

So if you're asking me "is it right, given current laws, to steal music/movies?" then the answer is clearly no; it's against the law. But it's only wrong because it's against the law, and laws can change by the collective will of the people.

My point is that the music/movie industry are very worried about such theft, but they are not worrying about it for the right reason.

They see consumer theft as some commie plot to undermine their industry; what they should realise is that it's actually telling them that their customers don't perceive any value in the products that they are selling.

If they don't treat us with a bit more respect, their intellectual property will cease to be property, and their rights will disappear.

 

[nutball]

One strategy they might consider trying would be producing music that's worth listening too, and movies that are worth watching, rather than bland overpriced formulaic pap.

and people will be more inclined not to steal good music/films? Urm...

Most people are less inclined to steal something that clearly has value, has a clear owner, and that the owner clearly feels pride in owning.

Most people are willing to pay what they regard as a fair price for something they regard as a quality product with value equal to or in excess of that price.

Problem is that with the music + movie industries there's very little negotiation on price between the producers and the consumers.

What happens when a film doesn't pack out the theatres? Do the cinemas drop the price, or do they chuck it out and replace it with something else? The latter. Can I go to a cinema and say "I don't really feel like paying £8 to see that movie, but if you charge me £5 I'll take it"? No, I can't. They feel no compunction to vary their prices to attract a larger audience, they know there's more crap coming down the conveyor belt. They slap it out to DVD and try to get some of their money back that way.

Historically my only option was to walk away. Now there are other alternatives that are more in-tune with the consumers perception of the value of the product. Speaking personally, I don't download music or movies from the net, because they're a waste of time. They're not even worth zero money IMO.

 

[Simon F]

I think watching what was recorded in somebody's brain would be really disconcerting.

I know my eyes wander, no matter how interested I am.

Worried your wife will see the video, eh?

 

[Heathen]

Most people are less inclined to steal something that clearly has value, has a clear owner, and that the owner clearly feels pride in owning.

Not from my experience, the bootleggers are more inclined to pirate good movies rather than bad and the demand is usually higher for the good stuff.

"I don't really feel like paying £8 to see that movie, but if you charge me £5 I'll take it"?

Another Misconception about prices in the UK, you are quite within your rights to offer whatever price you see fit. It's also the right of the establishment to accept or refuse your proffered price as they see fit.

 

[Simon F]

One strategy they might consider trying would be producing music that's worth listening too, and movies that are worth watching, rather than bland overpriced formulaic pap.

and people will be more inclined not to steal good music/films? Urm...

Most people are less inclined to steal something that clearly has value, has a clear owner, and that the owner clearly feels pride in owning.

I wish the b'stards who stole 3 expensive car radio-cassette from vehicles I have owned thought that way.
The cheap and nasty one I now have has not been touched.

 

[nutball]

Not from my experience, the bootleggers are more inclined to pirate good movies rather than bad and the demand is usually higher for the good stuff.

Fair enough, I wasn't really referring to bootleggers (bootlegging has been around for a while of course).

I was referring to Mom, Dad + 2.4 children. Folks who feel uncomfortable stealing stuff and would rather paying for it. Folks who don't want to feel like they've been taken for monkeys when they pay for stuff.

"I don't really feel like paying £8 to see that movie, but if you charge me £5 I'll take it"?

Another Misconception about prices in the UK, you are quite within your rights to offer whatever price you see fit. It's also the right of the establishment to accept or refuse your proffered price as they see fit.

Yeah, I know I'm within my rights, that's not the issue. What's the realistic probability of me persuading them? Zero. So effectively the price is £8 take-it-or-leave-it (so I leave it).

 

[RussSchultz]

But you're not proposing 'leaving it'. You're proposing taking it against their will.

 

[jvd]

What they need to do is put the movies out on dvd right away .

Case in point . I went to see lord of the rings rotk 4 times in the thearter . After that i got it boot legged in the city . Very good quality. If the dvd was out i would have bought it right away . Hell i bought the dvd when it came out and have the collectors box on preorder.

Any movie i have illegaly i have payed for at least twice to see in the movies .

Not everyone wants to go to a movie where your over charged for popcorn , soda , the tickets and shoved into a room where you barely fit in the seats , you have people talking all around you and babies crying .

They need to give us more options .

With the way things are going now they should allow us a few weeks after opening to be able to download the video from thier server for a fixed price and then burn them once to a dvd .

 

[RussSchultz]

I agree, I'd prefer to see every movie in my home. My setup is better (and certainly free of morons that talk during the movie) than most theaters. Plus, its always in focus.

But I don't think we'll see download to burn on DVD any time soon. Download yes, burn no.

 

[John Reynolds]

I agree, I'd prefer to see every movie in my home. My setup is better (and certainly free of morons that talk during the movie) than most theaters.

Don't complain until you've experienced what my friends call the John Reynolds curse. Basically the curse is that no matter the movie, show time, or # of occupants in the theater, there will be at least one person or couple sitting directly behind me who talk throughout the entire film. A good friend of mine has pretty much refused to go to the movies with me because of this after having experienced it for years.

 

[jvd]

Look at it this way . I'm 6'4 by no means a giant . Yet i barely have any leg room at all in a thearter . I have a very bad back thus the crappy seats that go strait up kill me .

I have the luck of allways sitting next to small children. Or have young kids come in and play video games while i'm watching the movie .


It sucks and untill they can offer a more enjoyable experiance at the movies i will only go with the club i'm in (there are 20 of us in full sized thx digital thearter ) or to the earliest showing avalible to insure no one is around .

 

[PaulS]

As is always the case with the films mentioned in these kinds of articles - an initial pirate copy was available a little while ago, and a higher quality version came out 2 days ago. The DVD will be available a month or two before retail, and a DVD Screener a month or more before that.

Have fun wasting your time on filing the paperwork on this one kid