Motion resolution on a 4K display

Discussion in 'PC Hardware, Software and Displays' started by MistaPi, May 12, 2016.

  1. MistaPi

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    I'm contemplating on buying a 60Hz 4K display now or wait for 4K DS 1.3 120Hz displayes. Regarding loss of resolution in motion (both in games and windows use) I'm guessing that it's a lot less noticeable on a 60Hz 4K display compared to a 60Hz 1080p display?
     
    #1 MistaPi, May 12, 2016
    Last edited: May 12, 2016
  2. Davros

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    What ???
     
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  3. London-boy

    London-boy Shifty's daddy
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    Motion resolution is a very real thing and this is a valid question. I'd recommend going to sites that do very in-depth reviews, they usually have tests for motion resolution. HDtvtest maybe? Or whatever it's called?
     
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  4. Davros

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    do you have some links ?
     
  5. London-boy

    London-boy Shifty's daddy
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    I'm not your PA! Google it! "motion resolution". Google even allows you to search things like "Why is motion resolution important?" and such. It's great!
     
  6. BRiT

    BRiT (╯°□°)╯
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    From nearly a decade ago when testing 1080p sets (2008), but the same logic applies to higher resolutions and today's sets. This should clearly explain why those of us in the know prefer high quality sets over cheap sets and paper specs.

    http://hdguru.com/will-you-see-all-...008-model-test-results-hd-guru-exclusive/287/

    Static and Motion Resolution

    An HDTV may resolve a stationary test signal at full bandwidth, displaying all the detail within the 1920 individual pixels that appear across the screen, but not necessarily when motion is introduced, which on some sets causes a resolution drop. This can significantly degrade your viewing experience, especially if you watch a great deal of sports and/or action-oriented movies. How much resolution loss occurs? To find out, I used a test tool called the FPD Benchmark Software for the Professional.

    This Blu-ray disc contains a Monoscope pattern (pictured above) which is made up of a series of four black lines that gradually come together in a wedge-like pattern that appears at the top, bottom and sides. Numbers adjacent to the lines indicate resolution. There are both stationary and moving versions of the pattern. In both instances, a number corresponds to the location of where all four lines can still be distinguished as they converge. The maximum resolution is 1080 lines per picture height. If you want to calculate how many pixels a given display can resolve across the screen, simply multiply the resolution number by 1.77777.

    ---

    Moving down the list are the 120Hz LCD flat panels. The results ranged from 550-620 lines of motion resolution, depending on the make and model of the display.

    The lowest motion resolution group of displays were the 60 Hz LCD flat panels with a maximum of just 340 lines out of 1080. The biggest loser of resolution goes to the 37 Sharp LC-37D64U, recording just 260 lines out of 1080 on the Motion test, a disappointing 75%+ loss of resolution. The lone rear projector tested was a Samsung DLP. It joins this group with 330 lines of motion resolution.
     
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  7. London-boy

    London-boy Shifty's daddy
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    Pricey TV Master Race
     
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  8. Davros

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    Does motion resolution apply to pc monitors and games ?
    also does it only apply to height ( i see lines displayed out of 1080 but not lines displayed out of 1920)
     
  9. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    It usually does not. Unless you've got one of those TV monitors.
     
  10. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    I just Google around and still confused.

    What the heck low motion resolution looks like? They said it looks blurry in motion... But then what's the difference with motion blur?

    Motion blur can be reduced by using BFI. But motion resolution can't be improved with BFI? Because it's actually displays fewer lines than native, while BFI basically just add blinking...

    I'm. Confused.
     
  11. London-boy

    London-boy Shifty's daddy
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    Motion resolution is, simply put, the ability of a screen (any screen) to display an image while that image is moving (most of the time for a lot of us).

    Take 1080p. Many TVs - or monitors - will display a perfect 1080p image while it's not moving (you'd hope so!), however at soon as things start moving you practically lose detail and 'resolution' because the screen isn't able to keep up.

    That function is called motion resolution and can be measured - i.e. a display will have a motion resolution of 400 lines instead of 1080, resulting in a less detailed, perhaps blurry image which goes back to full res when it stops moving. My plasma (most actually, especially Panasonic) don't exactly blur the image (the response time and type of the screen is too fast for that) but can instead show the typical "double image" of some things moving around, or when the camera pans too fast.

    Usually motion interpolation features improve that, up to some screens being able to have the full 1080 motion resolution when interpolation is cranked up, however at the expense of the usual artifacts we all know get introduced with those techniques.
     
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  12. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    Finally! Thanks now I understand that my eyes is not broken. It's my TV that's utter shit with its motion resolution.

    It's always shows double pictures for 30 fps games.

    I think I even provided a photo of the double frame a while back in b3d. I take a photo of Ni no kuni.

    Motion interpolation do eliminate the doubling though. With added lag...

    Damn. No wonder this Samsung TV was utterly cheap with its spec. It's even cheaper than LG.

    At that time it was at the same price as 768p 2D TV. My Samsung was 1080p active 3D.
     
  13. London-boy

    London-boy Shifty's daddy
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    Happy to be of service :)

    Plasma screens have that double ghost image thing as opposed to the usual LCD blur due to how they display the image.

    LCD use so called 'sample and hold' where the colour of a pixel is literally held until the next pixel arrives - this can create blur if response time isn't great (almost always, still today). LCD screens have had black frame insertion tech to counteract that very issue, to various degrees of success.

    Plasma screens go fast enough to eliminate that blur, but some (or most I think?) can have that double image issue. On mine it shows up on some 30fps games, mostly. Not all of them. Still not sure why some material shows it more than others.

    Another example is watching tennis or football - when moving fast across the screen, the ball will literally 'double up'.
    On an LCD the ball will tend to blur, more or less depending on how good the screen is.
    On my screen even the lowest interpolation setting pretty much eliminates that double image, without creating visible artifacts.

    Hope this helps, you're not crazy!
     
    #13 London-boy, May 18, 2016
    Last edited: May 18, 2016
  14. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    But my TV is lcd and it have double image in 30 fps games.

    From your explanation, the doubling should only happens on plasma?
     
  15. iroboto

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    here ya go!
     
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  16. London-boy

    London-boy Shifty's daddy
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    I have also seen the double image on LCDs as well as blur. I was going to edit my post but then I fell asleep :)

    LCDs are notoriously bad with motion, always been and always will be even though things are much better now.
     
    #16 London-boy, May 18, 2016
    Last edited: May 18, 2016
  17. Dr Evil

    Dr Evil Anas platyrhynchos
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    The problem is very real with PC-monitors as well, basically just as bad on 60Hz models. However there are PC-monitors that can pretty much eliminate this problem with the backlight strobing at 120Hz, many LCD TVs can do this too, but based on my experience they lose too much brightness in doing so. I had a Sony projector that did an excellent work with motion resolution, but it did introduce some artifacts.

    Lower motion resolution bothered me more in the past as it does now. First of all you don't lose the resolution too much with slow motion and I think it feels somewhat normal for things to blur a bit in motion. Don't get me wrong I like more motion resolution, but I don't worry about it too much anymore. In VR I guess it's quite critical to have good motion resolution though.
     
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  18. iroboto

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    Agreed for some reason i was stuck in line of thinking of input latency. Then I was thinking CRT- and CRT doesn't have motion resolution. Then i realized I have a 144hZ monitor that was way more clear than my 75Hz monitor, 10 fold better for my eyes. But then I debated whether I was seeing crappy images or that the resolution was actually loss during motion.

    Then when I read your comment I was like damn, I'm wrong.
     
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  19. Dr Evil

    Dr Evil Anas platyrhynchos
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    :-D

    I do hope TV's will get a great solution for this as well. Oled in itself doesn't really help here.
     
  20. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    Yea I totally only use the LCD panel checker on large screen displays. I've somewhat been biased thinking this didn't apply to PC monitors because of the screen being much smaller (and overall quality often being much higher). But that was a mistake that is pretty obvious to spot now.
     
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