More Sony first-party PlayStation games coming to PC

Without getting involved in the "1.5b PC gamers argument", I think what both your sources here, and Nesh's game publisher stats earlier are showing quite clearly is that the PC market as a whole is at least comparable to, if not larger than any individual console platform (PS4 could be a bit bigger) in terms of overall sales.

That should hardly come as a surprise to anyone given how PC is now (and this wasn't always the case) treated as a first class citizen for most 3rd party games these days and also why both Microsoft and Sony are looking to expand into it. Heck, these sources seem to show that the PC is a bigger market in terms of sales than the XBO and Series combined. No wonder MS want a slice, it's a no brainer for them considering it helps sell Windows too.

 

Yet EA, Ubisoft (etc) all report significantly bigger profits on PlayStation alone...

What are you talking about? Uibsoft shows PC @ 23% and PS4/5 @ 33% - so PS has around 40+% more value with significantly less buyers.

That's my whole point, the number of PC gamers who are willing to pay top dollar for the games that Sony are now trying to produce does not meet the what PSMan is trying to say, the average spend. Sure there's a market but it's currently smaller and harder to target for...don't forget Uibsoft will likely make money from more titles on PC also - so if you took those out of the equation and just compared like for like the gap is likely even bigger.

 

Umm, that's two platforms, not one. By those figures the PC would obviously bigger than one or both of them.

 

Sorry, I just don't understand what you're trying to say?

I can only go by the figures given, but PS4&5 combined is how it's displayed so what can I do? Either way 'PC' is forever generations, they could be counting from PS1/2 level for all we know!?

Ubisoft_FY21_Earnings_PR_English_final.pdf (akamaized.net)

This shows that earnings from PS4/5 went up 3% to 33% last year whilst PC went down 5% to 23%.

PlayStation has significantly less users (~150M tops - around 1/10th PC) but spend more money...and as I said before, they have titles which don't even release on PlayStation.

I think they sold around 2.2bn euro worth of games, so that's, what an average 4 euros each PC 'gamer' spent last year vs 48 euros for every PS owner if my math is right.

That's why it's important to look at all the data points not just one.

Edit - I might be out of the maths but it's essentially PS gamers spend 10x PC gamers looking at the 'facts' presented.

 

Just to clarify where I'm coming from, PSman is saying the PC market is 'worth more' than the console market. That (as a whole) may be true (looking at one data point which is repeatedly present as one true whole) - however, to the BIG companies (EA, Uibsoft, Take 2, etc) the PC market is not as profitable as the console market.

As such I'm suggesting the assertion that the PC market is a wonderful 'pot of gold' that 'Sony are chasing' by 'releasing more games on PC until eventually all games are on PC' is not accurate.

The facts are more likely that that PC additional money is made up by a large pot of indies/browser games/etc that never release on console - all the big hitters know the consoles are where the cream is at. Likewise Sony are trying to increase game costs - and we all know that PC games are generally cheaper.

So where is the logic that makes this such a great move for Sony? MS have a vested interest in the PC market and have never set the console world alight (X360 did quite well, but outside that they haven't), so it makes sense to them...they can now decide if they want to just stick to software and drop Xbox altogether or keep going...a lot will depend on this gen and how things pan out IMHO.

 

I'm saying that the PC is comparable to or larger than any given console platform in total sales across all of the sources you or Nesh posted. That's a simple equation for a developer to consider: "Do I release my PS5/Xbox Series only game on PC if it will double the potential sales?"

Its pretty easy to conclude that if the PC is 23% and the PS4 + PS5 combined are 33% then the PC must be account for more sales than at least one of them if not both of them. The equation is even easier with the Xbox consoles where the PC accounts for more sales already than the Series plus One combined.

This makes no sense. The PC is single platform. Developers don't release different game builds for different capabilities of PC. They release one game that scales across the one platform. The sales data is for 2021 so while it's likely the games released on PC that year were able to scale to PC's of both PS4 and PS5 performance it doesn't change the fact that it's a single platform.

In a year where a new generation of consoles launched and it was near impossible to get new PC GPU's. So hardly surprising or representative of a longer term trend. And if you look at the breakdown, especially Q4, you can see that most of the difference is accounted for by increased Xbox sales which makes sense since it's effectively a high end PC (of a kind you essentially couldn't buy from Q2/3 last year)

I really don't see why this is relevant. Devs will only be looking at how many sales they can make on each platform (and the profitability of each sale). Not what percentage of the total userbase of that platform is actually buying their games. It could be 1% of 100% but if the end result is 10m sales then that's all that matters.

But the "Console market" is not a single platform like the "PC market" is. So this is an apples to oranges comparison. You're generally looking at 4 to 5 platforms vs 1. And in that respect the PC is likely to be one of, or perhaps even the largest individual platform. And given it's very similar development environment to the Xbox platforms that should make it a no brainer to cater for.

If it's your assertion that the big publishers make more money on PC from Indies or browser based games than the big AA / AAA releases then I'd love to see some evidence of that.

Seems pretty clear to me tbh. It's another platform that compares in size to the biggest of Sony's individual console platforms and therefore represents the opportunity for significantly more sales than releasing on either PS5 only, or even on PS4 + PS5.

 

MS is preparing the grounds for a universal/subscription based platform. It is about owning your entertainment. MS isnt just investing on PC. MS is trying to not lose access in the market to a competing platform called Playstation, and they want to expand everywhere. Sony sees this reach MS has and how they are trying to define the market. Thats why they want to open up than keep everything in one basket. If MS was out of the picture with XBOX and its gaming strategy, Sony might have stayed with just Playstation. But they see where things are heading by MS.

Sony wants more to grow the PS userbase by giving incentives to buy PS thsn turn into a studio that makes PC games. The Playstation is where they get the big money. Not selling a few titles on PC that match 3 and solitaire "gamers" wont bother with.

Expecting that the supposed "large userbase" of the PC market will bring more money than owning Playstation and make people prefer that? Ha! Sony arent stupid.
One day Playstation might seize to exist as we know it and they want the flexibility to exist.

 

One thing devs/publishers keep in mind is theres a hell of a lot more games released on PC each year than on the consoles thus the X dollar amount spent has to be split up between more far more titles, hence Im looking into releasing my game for the xbox

number of new steam games released in just the year 2020 = 10,263
vs
1893 PS4 games total over 7-8 years
vs
100s if not 1000s a day released on mobile

 

Ubisoft games.... explains some of it lol. They havent been all that staggering as of late (though future games might fair better, ofcourse).

Then why your looking at revenue only? Install base is just as important. Obviously, the pc gaming market is much more into free2play and MMORPG and steam games, aswell as AAA ones. On PS, third party and AAA exclusives sell better there, for some atleast.

Atleast for the titles you present, yes. In total, everything included worldwide, there are more pc gamers and revenue than PS alone, and probably Xbox and switch combined aswell.

Yes, but then your only looking at those. Im not saying those aint as important (probably even more so), but that wasnt the discussion. You cant just count the big publishers

We dont know that, but Sony themselfs say 'You can expect more of this' regarding PS games on PC (which got ALOT of hate). Theres for sure a trend going on, like it or not. Its a very real possibility we might see all of sony games on pc in the future, just like MS does.

So what? Even indie games are considered games..... And aside of that, i remember Doom (2016 and eternal) selling better on pc then vs PS or any other console. I'd consider that a 'big hitter'. Also, even if the pc would see less sales of such games, that doesnt mean it cant give some extra sales.... Its nowhere near anything bad, even regarding CoD.

Ask Sony, their already launching PS games on pc. Some games even simultaniously, like Predator and others. (yes they are sony games)

https://www.nme.com/news/gaming-new...re-playstation-games-to-release-on-pc-2887443

Their slowly getting started with this. Weve had this discussion along time ago. Theres a clear trend, and theres no reason for sony to keep everything to a singular platform.
Reading the above article, its quite clear to me what Jim Ryan is going for, they want a piece of that huge pc market.

Another article with stats and all, scroll down for pc/console statistics and analysis

https://www.wepc.com/news/video-game-statistics/

''PC is still the most popular platform for game developers with 56% developing games for the platform in 2020. When it comes to consoles, Sony is still managing to beat Microsoft in terms of game development focus with 25% of developers focusing on the PS4 over 23% on the Xbox One. This trend continues when we look at next-gen consoles with 11% working on PS5 games over 9% working on Xbox Series X. Despite PC gaming coming top for developers, Mobile gaming is the most popular platform for users with 48% of players now regularly engaging in mobile gaming, and console gaming outperforming PC gaming in terms of the global games market.
Sources: NewZoo, GDC''

The PC is the sole largest market/user install base and revenue vs any of the consoles. As someone else posted before, the dip in late 2020 has alot to do with GPU/mining craze starting.
However, the pc is the largest singular market value/revenue. Install base is larger then all consoles combined.

''Online PC games is expected to take up 47% of the global PC and console gaming revenues in 2019. (DigiWorld, 2016)''

 

seems OT guys.
Besides, no point in arguing about what consoles or PC bring home. The reality is over 85% of all gaming revenue is driven by F2P titles. So all arguments I've seen are pretty pointless unless you want to fight over the remaining 15% which are some small sales of games divided between consoles and PC.

https://www.wepc.com/news/video-game-statistics/

console games coming to PC is really all about mindshare and presence. These titles aren't expected to sell crazy numbers in comparison to the console. But in a gaming market that is now being pushed heavily by Tencent, F2P MMOs, etc, and in general mobile gaming; you don't want to be in a situation where no one knows or cares about what you are making.

It's crazy that there is an Angry Birds theme park.

The gaming industry is moving in a rapid pace, the release of titles to additional platforms is a move to slow the pace down. ie; trying to injections of your titles into new markets to cast your influence in those areas of play and have some degree of control over the way gaming is quickly moving.

This debate has largely been centralized around what the posters know, which is that the average gamer who purchases and plays video games is a 36 year old male, with a house and a family.

Congrats.

But there is a very important niche of the market that needs attention, and that is the younger gamers. The majority of console owners are often and likely today middle aged adults, 25-45 at this point in time. This is the group that grew up gaming on these devices, and many titles have also followed these exact titles in the series.

The next biggest group of gamers are of course the 5-19 year olds and many of them are probably not gaming on console by percentage nearly as much as the older group. They are on PC, tablets and mobile. They are playing F2P titles. The majority of women, who now make up a massive population of gamers game largely on mobile!

And that's only if we're talking about US/EU markets. The largest gaming market today is China and you ask yourself what platform China is on.

So they have to get some mind share there. The move to Halo to PC and then to F2P and now all of their games moving to XCLOUD is there to ensure that they are moving the games to where their audience plays. (Sony is also making the same moves) Recent remasters/re-makes/re-releases of movies and games are absolutely not a coincidence between the movie and game industry. They are obvious attempts to take successful movies that targeted those age groups and target them again.

And the moves by MS and Sony are longer term moves to ensure that as this 5-18 group continues to get older, they know about these Sony and MS IPs. Because right now, they are on PC and mobile, and if those games aren't on PC/mobile, they won't know about them.

This is not just about short term revenue! These are long term moves to ensure that revenue is going to be around for the next decades! The debate around why games are moving platforms should be a platform centric discussion. And platform is about demographics!

Lots to discuss about the change in gaming demographics that wasn't touched in this large discussion here.

https://www.wepc.com/news/video-game-statistics/

 

Iroboto what you say is mostly true but one thing what I've learnt about here after years these forums are not about mobile etc, its more about stuff that pushes graphical boundaries the more 'hardcore' if you will

highest earning games 2020
1. PUBG Mobile / Game for Peace
2. Honor of Kings / Arena of Valor
3. Roblox
4. arena Free Fire
etc
how many of these are ever mentioned here? Do these games even have a thread Im guessing not

one thing I tried to google for but couldnt find (perhaps someone else can?)
Is how much on average does a console title earn, a pc title, a mobile title
Im guessing something like for revenue

ave console title = $10,000,000
ave PC title = $200,000
ave mobile title = $5,000

ave and median numbers would be great

Im a PC gamer through and through, but are looking at releasing my game on xbox due to the larger expected revenue I would earn

 

Exactly. None are the type of games Sony or MS focus on. They are the games that follow mostly the f2p, online multiplayer model. The younger audiences.
Horizon Zero, Forza or Gears dont fit that profile.
Sony and MS aren't as much interested in selling sole games as in actually developing and maintaining an ecosystem they can get profit from. Offering those games on their platforms is more beneficial for them than trying to create games that will compete. If they do thats a great bonus.
Neither Sony nor MS wanted to enter the console market just to make and sell their games.

You mean like the same game?
We can see the revenues of the known multiplatform publishers. Of course these are the publishers that make the games WE like which sell or bring more revenue from consoles.

Are you working on a game?

 

This has to be one of the dumbest discussions chains in a good while - and again, predicated n people who are amazingly skilled at ignoring facts.

A size of a market does not matter, the spending power and potential revenue does. There are obviously more PC owners than console owners, there are probably more PC owners who play games on their PC than console gamers but sales and revenue from big multiplatform game publishers show PCs games are a fraction of the size of consoles. Why? Who knows? Why does the iOS market produce more revenue than the larger Android market? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It is what it is. Sony releasing some old games, which are presumably fairly easy to port, and that they think will sell enough to cover the cost pro porting, releasing and supporting, looks to be about spreading some IP aware and making a little money in the process. I don't know why it has to be more complicated than that.

 

Except the evidence that I presented that show's PC gamers spend significantly less than console gamers (on average).

Ass-u-me much? lol If you look at last years figures we get a clearer picture, that's a straight up PS4 vs PC so what? 30% vs 28% - quite close right? Except one market is less than 10% of the other yet producing more income.

This is a fairly good answer, I like it - but it's still a bit flawed. We're told there are 1.5bn gaming PCs, so most new games released can be purchased by those PC owners, yet by the figures it looks like less than 1% do. Oh, and they do release some remasters FWIW.

Just as impossible to buy consoles, and as I said - look at last years figures when there were no supply issues.

Good point, except if that market doesn't spend much money...I mean, put it this way, if the size of the market was so important Sony would be releasing their £70 games on mobile right? I mean, doesn't matter if only .1% buy the game.

?? I just proved these companies make more from PS4 alone.

Well if you can plug in the gaps I'd love to see that. We know what the big companies make - we can see their figures, and they are all consistent with what I'm saying. So where is the extra revenue coming from? One of the graphs I linked to said I think it was 3.4% was from browser games or something like that?

Not so clear to me. Do we have some sales figures on the PS games released on PC? Seems more like if you can make a cheap port and some money then yes, but if you want to go the MS route I just don't see the math adding up due to the losses they will make as people don't need to sit within their extremely profitable ecosystem.

 

Might want to check all the other big company financials then because they all read the same...find me a big company that shows PC income above console.

As above it depends on something called spending habits. No point having a billion customers who will spend at most £5 on a game when you have 50m who will gladly spend £50 (if you're making games like Sony intend to)

Yes, I don't disagree, but what is that spent on - please provide the gap that's missing...because we know they don't spend it at any of the big boys shops.

The problem is Sony ARE a big publisher (or at least will have aspirations to be one).

Well this is the debate, and the evidence suggests that there is no big pot of gold, but there is an opportunity to release a game if it's cheap to do so and won't impact your userbase ecosystem (which is where Sony make a significant portion of their PS money).

You really should try reading, I've no issue at all with indie games. And one outliner (that may or may not be true - and had a very long history with PC gamers) is hardly going to surprise anyone. But please, provide evidence of big games selling better on PC...not some random graph with not idea what it's actually counting.

Yes, but the question is how much and what the long term goal is...because it's not just a simple pot of gold, if you dip your toe in too much you will lose money from the main incomer and they make far too much from that to risk losing that stream.

More quote which mean nothing. You're not showing anything to suggest PC gamers will lap up Sony games. You're not showing that releasing their 'jewel in the crown' games day one will not cause a bigger loss in sales due to people like me leaving their ecosystem where they make significantly more from me that if I bought on PC.

 

This is what I was trying to say, I've spent quite a bit on games that are not (and will never likely be) on console...and usually those are indie games.

 

There's no proof to this claim whatsoever, its certainly not coming from Sony's mouth.

PC gaming is the largest, perhaps not for Fifa and CoD, but as pointed out by someone else, the F2P market covers 85% or so of the market, it seems Sony and in special Nintendo are the only ones keeping many and in nintendos case all games eclosed to a single box. I suspect that Sony now testing the waters, will have most if not all their games on pc either on day one or at a later date.

As i understand from sony fans here, playstation users basically omit the pc (or even hate it), i see no fear for sony that a substantional group will make their shift to the pc and abandon the PS.

Edit: swining and flexing graphs seems going nowhere, it seems that people can find what they want to find and use it as evidence. That goes both ways PC or PS.

 

lol, you're the one using a single data point to try and insist something is happening. We've shown many other data points to suggest it's not likely the reason but you choose to ignore.

Please try to present data that supports your theory (other than the one you keep regurgitating).

I have presented data from several sources and provided solid math to backup my claims...I may be wrong, but at least I'm putting effort in to support my claim.

 

How is F2P games related to Sony and Nintendo keeping their games on their platform?
Even on XBOX F2P games are not the games that define the console.
F2P games making the great bulk of the PC market supports our previous point. The great majority of Sony's, Nintendo's and MS's games are not for that market. The size of the PC market does represent the market that is out there to buy the big publishers' games nor does it care as much.

I think your issue here is that you think this is some kind of platform wars

Thats you

 

Because theres data that shows the pc gaming market has both a larger install base and revenue.

So what data shows that Sony or any other studio/developer that its a bad idea to publish any game on pc? Even sony games coming to pc have done quite well, obviously not as well as on PS4, but the games released some years later.

So, why does every studio launch their games on pc aswell then? Except for the sony exclusives then? Also, Global Offensive, WoW, Doom, HL Alyx etc are doing quite well, and those arent free to play.
Ubisoft titles, aswell as EA ones etc just arent doing all that well on PC for a reason, standards seem higher for those types of games. Doom did sell best on pc, BF usually is the largest on pc, too.
For games like FiFa and CoD, yea they do better on PS. Its the difference between a more casual (console) vs the pc market where you dont get away as easy with something like AC valhalla.

Well, its what im seeing from some, not all sony users, but some are in purely for platfrom warring. I dont care since i have both PS and PC, exclusives i cant get on pc will be played on PS5, but if i can, i will on pc (or both, if possible).

Thats all of us, one can show data PC reigns supreme in market value, another can find the opposite where the PS reigns supreme. Its just what you want to find.