Moral rights of copyright and software ownership *spawn

Discussion in 'Politics & Ethics of Technology' started by corduroygt, Jan 1, 2011.

  1. Scott_Arm

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    Who knows. I have no insight as to how profitable the $10-20 games industry is. I know some Live Arcade games and PSN games have made a ton of money. What percentage of the releases make their money back, I have no idea. I have a feeling those are rough waters as well.

    In their case, with direct download and self-publishing (on PS4 at least), I imagine a heavy DRM model is probably preferable. They figure the game is cheap enough that people will be averse to buying it if there is no way to pirate, rent instead.
     
  2. brasnial

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    spelling again the bane of my life can you guess why ?e ......Sony has chosen to not embrace DRM now but they will in the future of that I have no doult .

    We have no chose people the future for gaming is code on the internet not a physical disk holding that code .......DRM will exist in the future .

    Microsoft are not the first to embrace this smart phones tablets already have and now look how successful they are with no used game market ...so far Microsoft are taking about still being able to sell your games you brought or if you wish give them to a friend .
    Name one smart phone company that allows your to give away or sell your digital games .......now its not a fair comparison a know games on consoles cost so much more but still its coming digital is the future all us gamers can do is to try and make sure we still have the right to sell our digital copy which Microsoft seems to be allowing us to do .:) *
     
    #222 brasnial, Jun 13, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2013
  3. Davros

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    Er Incase you hadnt noticed we already have the right to sell our games ms is trying to limit that right, they are limiting who can buy and sell they are also limiting the amount of money i would get by selling.

    ps: you never answered
    A creative mind also makes a coffee table a creative mind also makes a statue so you believe everytime a coffee table is resold the carpenter should get a cut the sculptor ??
     
  4. -tkf-

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    You should really go to the correct thread about used games, moral, life and everything.

    Games are not special, but special people are trying to make the case that they are special.
     
  5. brasnial

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    I see games as a invention of a creative mind so I have no qualms about giving a cut of all money make by that creation to those who created it in the first place .
    Its about giving back a fair cut to all ....a game is not a disk its the code on that disk ....the disk is just a delivery system that's all the value is in the code as far as I'm concerned .

    The future is digital I'm sorry but it is in my opinion ......we are discussing he death of game disks here and what the future will hold for us as gamers .

    Now code has a value in the future hell its here now what's a DVD dusk really worth nothing without the code on it .
    View it as selling a licence to use a code because like it or not that's what's or ready happening with smart phones .

    Us as games should be thinking OK but let's us still sell our licences to others .........we are at a cross other point in my opinion .

    Fighting against change is a waste of energy in my opinion fighting for rights with in that new order is not ......as long as you can still sell or give your licences to use code still exist where's the problem .

    I'm not looking to change anyone else's opinion I'm just looking to debate a future where we all can still enjoy the hobby we all love :)
     
  6. MrFloopy

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    Games are not special when compared to other copyright material. They are special if you want to compare it to a piece of furniture.

    Just curious, can you sell your theatre ticket after you have used it, and expect that the person you sold it to should get to go to the theatre and watch the next show?

    Assuming you don't think that's "not special" either, then we can agree, not all purchasable items grant you the same rights as others.
     
  7. -tkf-

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    Nope, but i expect to be able to sell my Theater Ticket to someone else if i can't make it.

    Can you sell a book after you read it?

    The idea that has been presented is that the reason we want to protect developers and publishers is that they are special because.. why? Other industries lose money on second hand sales so just because they aren't copyrighted works it's ok?
     
  8. MrFloopy

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    Who says you can't resell your game before you use it?

    Yes you can sell a book after you read it. Only point I'm making is that not all products have the same resale opportunities. It appears you are making the case that nothing is special and should be treated the same. I'm just calling out what is a painfully obvious untruth.

    I like my chances of successfully arguing a game is like a trip to the theatre a lot more than your chances of arguing a game is like a chair. :D
     
  9. -tkf-

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    Of course it differs what resale value a product can have.. just as it differs with games, right?

    The people that cry over used games do it because they think it's "unfair", do you agree?

    They cry because the original makes/publishers doesn't get a cut on 2nd hand sales.

    But if it's unfair towards games there is a good list of other products that can join that list.

    Just because i say chair and you think it's very funny "haha" doesn't mean i don't have a point. Whoever makes chairs will in principle lose sales when people buy second hand chairs. The difference is the amount and chair fanboys ready to back up chair resellers :)

    My point was, try to draw a line, if you accept the death of used games why stop there.
     
  10. MrFloopy

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    I never said you didn't have a point, I just don't agree with it.

    To me it's quite simple. If I create something, I should be able to sell it under any terms I want. There is nothing stopping a theatre company from saying tickets are reusable if they wish. I can for example buy a season pass to the footy, and I can pass that on to anyone I like.

    If I make a chair I SHOULD be able to sell it under any conditions I like. Why shouldn't I be able to say, "He mate, I built this chair for you. When you are finished with it, return it to me, so that I may sell it to another".

    I believe the maker of that chair should have every right to make that deal. On the flip side, I believe that a customer has every right in the world to say, "Thanks for making me the chair, but you know what, if I can't resell it, I'd rather not take it thanks."

    See the difference.

    A seller should have the right to set any terms they wish, as consumers have every right to refuse them.

    I have a very real problem with the EU saying that you cannot do that.
     
  11. -tkf-

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    You can sell a chair and do like you say, it's called rental.

    But if you sell me something you have to accept that i can resell it.
     
  12. MrFloopy

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    Ah, except sale and rental have certain enforced legal consequences that are bundled with those contracts which may not suit the purpose of either seller or buyer. Time limits, responsibility for maintenance, liability for lost, stolen or damaged items, etc etc. A buyer and seller should have the right to make the contract of their choice.
     
  13. Davros

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    Any terms ?
    even unfair terms ? (like the software industry does already)
    terms that deny me my consumer rights ? (like the software industry does already)
    how about terms that you can change at any time even after the sale has been made? (like the software industry does already)
    how about terms that you don't disclose until after the sale (like the software industry does already)

    Hows are these for terms
    " you agree the paint on this chair is illegal and causes cancer and thats ok"

    " within 6 months of buying the chair you agree to murder -tkf-
    Do you think you should be allowed to sell under those terms ?
     
  14. MrFloopy

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    Yes I do think they should be able to make those terms you suggested. As you have the right to say no.

    With regards to your cancer and murder points, your use of hyperbole is truly masterful.
     
  15. RacVic

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    I have a question for everyone.

    You have designed a game on your own which when released has sold 100,000 copies via disk based media. After it's release and final accounting you have made a profit. One year after your game has sold it's last in store disk you receive confirmed information that your game has been sold an additional 100,000 times via the used game market.

    Would you as the sole person responsible for the creation of said game feel entitled some percentage of the additional sales or would you be content with your take and move on to your next creation?
     
  16. Pugger

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    I'd be surprised if many developers didn't feel like they deserved a cut of the 2nd hand market.
     
  17. Jwm

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    I choose Steam or XBLA where I would not sell on disc. :wink:

    Yes I would be upset, but since I allowed it to happen I would have to be only upset with myself. If I had entered into a contract with a publisher excluding them the rights of second hand sales then I would be upset with them.
     
  18. brasnial

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    I coder creatates a experience and there for should have a small cut from all who profit from his creation unless he waves his rights to his creation .:)
     
  19. brasnial

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    A game is a code created by a artist to express his vision for us all to enjoy in my eyes the problem is that he's not selling you the code but licence to use his code and enjoy his vision ......if you choose to sell his vision on in my opinion the artist who created the vision is due a small cut from the sell on fee.
    Much like a royalty :)
     
  20. nutball

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    If I buy a painting from an artist, then sell it on, does the original artist get a cut? No.
     
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