Microsoft and Game Engines *branch*

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by fehu, Jan 29, 2021.

  1. liams

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2020
    Messages:
    358
    Likes Received:
    302
    In the xbox and bethesda roundtable Phil mentioned that they were looking at what other first party teams could use id tech in the future, and mentioned 343 and the coalition.

    It would be quite the upset if gears 6 was on id tech after being an unreal poster child for its entire existence :runaway:

    Any guesses at the first xbox first party, non zenimax studio to use id tech? Its a leap I know but I bet double fines game after whatever they release after psychonauts 2 will use id tech.
     
  2. BRiT

    BRiT (>• •)>⌐■-■ (⌐■-■)
    Moderator Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    19,258
    Likes Received:
    22,077
    Something set for 2024 or later if its a big title, maybe something in 2023 if its a smaller title. Thats the only way I see it going, and even that may be too aggressive.
     
  3. invictis

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    May 28, 2013
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    67
    While idtech 7 is an amazing engine, at least for FPS, Forzatech wouldn't be far behind it. It is the engine used for both Forza MS and Horizon, as well as Flight Sim and now Fable. It looks like a hell of an open world game engine.
    Not only that, but Turn 10 has spend a couple of years re working the Forzatech engine for Ray Tracing and all of Direct X 12 Ultimate extensions.
     
  4. Ike Turner

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    2,105
    Likes Received:
    2,290
    Not.at.all
     
    Silent_Buddha, BRiT and Dictator like this.
  5. eastmen

    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    12,871
    Likes Received:
    3,754
    I talked about this previously in regards to Sony investing in Epic. At the time I did the mental exercise to think about what buying crytek would mean for MS. However its the same here with ID tech. obviously they would want to still invest in making sure unreal runs well on xbox. However they now have their own engine that is pretty darn good and versatile. I think you will see more than just bethesda games use the engine and I think MS will continue to push it as an option for outside developers. But with forza engine , id tech and gamebryo engine they should have enough in house tech . Hopefully MS allows the time for Bethesda to start moving future game production over to ID tech and they over haul id tech for RPGS
     
  6. Mskx

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2019
    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    216
    No? Pretty sure there was some interview where someone from Asobo talked about getting help from Turn 10 with the Ftech engine for the games development?
    And also was there not some social media or linkedin movement that indicated that folks from Turn 10 had worked with the Fable team? I might be misremembering something...
     
  7. liams

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2020
    Messages:
    358
    Likes Received:
    302

    It will be interesting to see if there is much interest from external developers in using id tech if it was offered to them, will be interesting to see how they differentiate it from unreal. I suppose one way they could do it is make the license fee 5% of revenue like unreal, but then reduce the platform fee for games sold on xbox from 30% to 15-20% if they are using id tech for instance. Or I suppose they could just make it free to use but bake in a bunch of playfab stuff.


    To be fair to Bethesda we haven't seen what their engine can do in starfield yet, according to Todd there has been a massive engine overhaul, and they were hiring artists with experience working with photogrammetry, so maybe it really will be a big difference this time, but we will have to wait until summer I guess.


    I wonder if we will hear about id tech at GDC in a few weeks? I know it seems a bit soon to talk about allowing external teams to use id tech but the lead programmer at id left in December to become a higher up in the game stack organisation (iirc head of game tooling? something like that, I remember that his linkedIn mentioned empowering game developers) so its possible they have been working toward it since the acquisition was announced
     
  8. Mskx

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2019
    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    216
    Went searching for a source on the Flight Simulator thing and apparently it came from a mistranslation or pure fabulation of this french interview? https://objectifaquitaine.latribune...io-s-envole-pour-au-moins-dix-ans-856752.html

    There is a paywall in the way so i can't see for myself but yeah it's not true. :p
     
  9. liams

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2020
    Messages:
    358
    Likes Received:
    302
    There was an affectively made up translation that some news site posted with someone at Asobo that was originally in french, they translation that they used was completely and utterly made up. It wasnt the case that they just ran it through google translate, it was completely fake. that fake article that they posted is the source of information saying that flight sim uses forzatech, and its wrong, you must have seen that article.

    With fable we dont know what engine they are using, originally it was thought that they were using unreal, which makes sense because thats what lionhead were using for fable legends, (and maybe the other fable games? not sure), but there has been some evidence that they arent using unreal for fable, which leads people to assume that they are using some version of forzatech. For all we know they licensed the creation engine off of bethesda lol!

    Just for completeness I'll go though the evidence that suggests that they are using a version of forzatech for fable. Firstly, there was a few job postings for an engine programmer at playground games a while back for fable that said something along the lines of 'you'll be using our proprietary engine', of course maybe the person that was hired would be expected to contribute to the forzatech engine for the forza horizon series while using unreal for fable, so its nothing definitive. Secondly, there is some evidence from peoples linkedIn who work at turn 10. Firstly, there was someone who was currently working as the lead fable tech sharing person, it seems to me that it would be unusual to need a dedicated lead tech sharing person if fable was using unreal, surely if they were using a different engine there wouldn't be that much that they could share between the teams. And finally, and imo, the biggest evidence is that Alan Hartman, who is the studio head of turn 10, has his job description on linkedIn as "Vice President of Forza and Fable" so turn10 are likely directly collaborating with playground on fable.

    Also, there are a few employees at turn10 that have a lot of experience in character modelling and RPGs, who have joined turn 10 in the last couple of years, which I would naively assume wouldnt lend itself to making a racing simulator. For instance, David K Lam joined Turn10 in 2018 after spending 6 years at bioware working on dragon age and mass affect first as an associate art director, and then a senior art manager, and prior to that he was a character modeller at EA, eventually becoming a lead character modeller.

    Obviously this is all completely anecdotal evidence, and some of it isnt evidence of anything, but putting it all together, on the balance of probability I would bet that playground is using a variant of forzatech for fable, (maybe called fabletech?, maybe they will just rename it ftech)


    Also, look at what turn10 posted yesterday on linkedin, to quote:

    "
    We are constantly developing new experiences for players on the foundation of our world class ForzaTech engine, LiveOps tooling and Services backend. We are looking for an enthusiastic #Producer to join our team and own defining and driving the next set of investments for ForzaTech in how we deliver configuration and player-facing Services for our suite of games!
    "
    link to the post:
    Post | Feed | LinkedIn

    So they are hiring someone to work on forzatech, but dont mention forza? Only refer to the games that use forzatech as "our suite of games" and "We are constantly developing new experiences for players on the foundation of our world class ForzaTech engine". Maybe the new experiences on the foundation of forzatech refers to fable?



    Sorry for the long post, I get carried away with it when its something I enjoy talking about, patching together what engine fable is using is something I find really interesting
     
    #49 liams, Mar 14, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2021
  10. cheapchips

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,988
    Likes Received:
    2,134
    Location:
    UK
    I'm keen to see what engine Deathloop and Ghostwire use. Both studios used their own unique derivatives of idTech 5 for Dishonoured 2 and Evil Within 2. Prey stands out as an oddity using Cryengine.

    Other than that, the only other Zenimax titles using idTech 5+ are Dooms and Vulfensteins?
     
  11. Ike Turner

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    2,105
    Likes Received:
    2,290
    Fable is UE4.
    Arkane uses Void which is based on idTech.
    FS2020 is a evolution of the decades old FSX engine.
     
  12. DSoup

    DSoup Series Soup
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    15,380
    Likes Received:
    11,491
    Location:
    London, UK
    Ghostwire is using UE4. Deathloop is likely using the Arkane's Void engine, Void is based on idTech5.
     
    cheapchips likes this.
  13. zed

    zed
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,601
    Likes Received:
    1,546
    I think the idTech engine only use Vulkan, Would MS be happy about their studios not using D3D, prolly not. Then again money talks
     
  14. Mskx

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2019
    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    216
    Source?
     
  15. cheapchips

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,988
    Likes Received:
    2,134
    Location:
    UK
    That's the thing with Void. Technically Prey is the most recent release from Arcane and that use Cryengine. The release was so close to Dishonoured though, not sure it's indicative of anything for Deathloop.
     
  16. DSoup

    DSoup Series Soup
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    15,380
    Likes Received:
    11,491
    Location:
    London, UK
    Arkane are all over the map engine-wise. They have their internal Void engine, but used CryEngine for Prey and idTech for Wolfenstein. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
  17. milk

    milk Like Verified
    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2012
    Messages:
    3,750
    Likes Received:
    3,848
    I don't think it would be too hard to port it to D3D, but now thar you mention it, it is indeed a shame that we lost one of the main high tech studios that consistently made it a point to rely on OGL and Vulkan.
    Oh well...
     
  18. scently

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,109
    Likes Received:
    496
    IdTech runs on the Xbox hardware so it already has a DX path.
     
    milk, Dictator, Malo and 2 others like this.
  19. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
    Legend Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2014
    Messages:
    13,669
    Likes Received:
    16,885
    Location:
    The North
    I was waiting for someone to point out this lol
     
  20. Jay

    Jay
    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2013
    Messages:
    3,698
    Likes Received:
    3,048
    80% of engines are evolutions of old engines.
    It comes down to how good is it now.

    If you think that's irrelevant, then what about how much has it evolved? Just added DRS, or lot more changes for example.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...