Making Bioshock work with SM 2.0 cards (WiP)

Discussion in '3D Hardware, Software & Output Devices' started by Richard, Aug 23, 2007.

  1. ShaidarHaran

    ShaidarHaran hardware monkey
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    It's not about ridiculing users of old hardware, it's about having realistic expectations, i.e. not expecting 3+ year-old graphics cards to play the latest greatest new shiny thing. Such is the cost of evolution.
     
  2. swaaye

    swaaye Entirely Suboptimal
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    Add this to your list of things to bitch at ATI about because NV apparently has a seriously superior dev relations program going.

    Maybe Irrational wanted to have the game look a certain way for everyone? Maybe they didn't want to work around SM2 limitations to cater to a small audience? Possible options.... I guess pure, unbridled, evil greed could be the one and only cause too!
     
  3. Reputator

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    It should be noted that not everyone who signed that petition is "frozen in time". I know because I'm not one of those folks, but I signed the petition. Mainly because I figured, what the hell.

    It's like Morgoth said. You have to admit, getting Oblivion to run in SM1.1 is pretty damn neat.
     
  4. Acert93

    Acert93 Artist formerly known as Acert93
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    And the lack of gracefull fallback for such hardware (that cost $400+ 3 years ago) is a good reason why PC gaming is hardly what it used to be. And I say this as someone who bought an SM3.0 part 3 years ago ;)

    The SM3.0 path really isn't very good on my 6800GT, but I guess the check box is useful in this case. But the fact there is 3 year old hardware that stomps on newer hardware that can play the game does strike odd. Surely a resource issue, and with the 360 being SM3.0+ and the bigger sales platform Irrational chose the best path for the game in general, but slamming people who invested in still quality hardware with the expectation they should need to upgrade is just as irrational.

    This sort of business model is excessive. I agree that progress is important. Yet looking at it, an X800 will outperform on an SM2.0 path some newer cards playing it in SM3.0. But seeing as it is more work for Irrational, it seems to be as much a DX design issue as anything else. The lack of fallback and pricing of GPUs really creates an environment hostile to price conscious gamers.
     
  5. swaaye

    swaaye Entirely Suboptimal
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    Yeah but the community didn't try to force Bethesda to develop the game for it. That's what that Bioshock petition is trying to do. Oldblivion is entirely a community project.
     
  6. swaaye

    swaaye Entirely Suboptimal
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    The need for extensive backwards compatibility on PC is one of the reasons devs are slipping towards console development. The convergence of the PC and consoles, with the consoles basically being very controlled/restricted PCs with a gamepad, and the much more difficult piracy and lower tech support and testing demands, is quickly making the PC unattractive.

    So really, I don't see an issue with them dropping support for SM2 when the only cards that would probably run it well with this game are X800/X850. They figured that it wasn't worth the effort. The market has changed dramatically since the X800/X850 days too, with games selling like wildfire on those annoying little consoles. Consoles that happen to be, as said, SM3+, unlike SM1+ Xbox or DX7-esque Cube/PS2.

    From another angle, maybe ATI didn't bother with relations with Irrational? Or maybe they were and they too have abandoned pushing for SM2 support? There is also the little fact that the Unreal engines have been built partly with NV sponsorship since UT2003... Blame Epic too!

    There are lots of factors to think about with the next video card purchase, I would say.
     
  7. Reputator

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    Oblivion was made with full mod support in place. Replacing the shaders was a relatively easy thing to do.

    If you modify certain files in Bioshock, SecuROM will be on your case about it. It's not hard to see why they need 2K Boston/Australia's help to accomplish this, if only to get access past the protection program.
     
  8. ANova

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    You don't see issue with support being dropped for older yet faster cards relative to many newer ones? Simply because there may be rationale behind it doesn't mean it is sound. Why shouldn't customers be dissappointed when they are dropped because a company didn't want to spend a little more time implementing a function? Look at Valve, they supported a huge range of hardware and they're game sold exceptionally well. I don't understand how some developers can rationalize not spending another week when it could mean potentially thousands more in sales. It's very shortsided if you ask me.
     
  9. AlexV

    AlexV Heteroscedasticitate
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    If you think that shifting your entire shader infrastructure takes only a week....well, umm, ok. And you can't compare what Valve did(they wanted to get Source out as an engine as much as HL2 as a game, notwithstanding the fact that Source wasn't really cutting-edge even then), with what 2K have done now(triple A single-player game that has to sell only itself, not an engine and a distribution platform and whatever).

    As for your argument...dunno, if you'll check real-life you'll see that this is where human society is ATM:we're as consumatoristic as it gets. Nothing is made to last a lifetime anymore, be it furniture, cars, watches, pens. Product dynamics are high in order to encourage consumption, and many times the need to buy something is artificially induced. But that's where the global economy is, no amount of bitching will change that.

    Finally, for a title like Bioshock, the savings in money due to reduced development time and debugging time coupled with the fact that it was likely to sell like hotcakes on both PC and X360 pretty much made a few potentially lost sales irrelevant. Not to mention that I don't know how seriously does a dev believe that someone who doesn't want to spend 150-180$ on a newish card would go out and shell 49-59$ on a game that is solely single-player, and not hugely replayable. IMHO.
     
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