Making Bioshock work with SM 2.0 cards (WiP)

Discussion in '3D Hardware, Software & Output Devices' started by Richard, Aug 23, 2007.

  1. TheAlSpark

    TheAlSpark Moderator
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    So SM3.0 AMD cards should do particularly well then?
     
  2. AlexV

    AlexV Heteroscedasticitate
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    Only when compared with cards prior to the G8x family.

    And 2K and every other dev that sets more aggresive baselines like SM3.0 as minimal requirement, dual-core, whatever are my personal heroes. Just like both IHVs are for not releasing high-end AGP parts...because maybe, just maybe, some things that should've been dead a long time ago will finally die this way.

    As proof of concept though, shader-mods are cool.
     
  3. ShaidarHaran

    ShaidarHaran hardware monkey
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    SM3 games are "shinier" in my experience. People like shiny things...

    Now that I reflect upon my comments I realize that was a rather poor choice of words. I can't afford any upgrades for my almost 3 year-old system although I'd love to. What I really meant to say was that anyone that can justify purchasing a $300-$500 video card in the first place should be able to afford an upgrade of only $100. Of course, times change and situations with them so what one could afford a few years ago may be out of reach today (I hope that's not the case for many here).

    I suppose I should be more sympathetic to the plight of the common PC gamer, having gone from an Opty 175 CF X1900 rig to the meager P4 Dell I have now...
     
  4. Davros

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    Oi who you calling common :D
     
  5. Humus

    Humus Crazy coder
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    What would be the gain? SCCT was released in a time when ATI had SM2.0 hardware and Nvidia had SM3.0 hardware, but SCCT didn't really need SM3.0 other than for convenience (static branching in pixel shader etc.)
     
  6. TheAlSpark

    TheAlSpark Moderator
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    I'll take that as an unofficial "no". ;)

    For the less shader-...matically (shadermatics!) inclined, what are those dynamic branches checking and doing :?:
     
  7. Richard

    Richard Mord's imaginary friend
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    I'm well aware of that. The gain would be supporting ATI customers who did NOT buy into nVidia's "Power of 3" campaign and have video cards that will run the game faster than the minimum supported by the game. For instance, using the unofficial fix I linked to lets me run the game at around 50fps with max details (except DX10 effects) at 1024x768 with a X850XT PE. Even though many textures are missing I think the X8xx series card would be fast enough to run the game at 800x600 at min quality.

    But let me be clear, this is not ATI's fault (the same way it wasn't back in the SC: Chaos Theory affair).
     
  8. AlexV

    AlexV Heteroscedasticitate
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    Why is it a fault?
     
  9. Humus

    Humus Crazy coder
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    Don't take my words to mean anything, even unofficially. I don't even work there anymore.
     
  10. TheAlSpark

    TheAlSpark Moderator
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    No fair, I don't check up on your blog everyday. :p Good luck with the game studio (and keep a vivid side-blog on any Creatures you encounter :cool:)
     
  11. Davros

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    Its Norway that has the parrots not Sweden ;)

    Ps: Humus since your here I have a request if i may be so bold, next time you make a demo any chance of it being a firework display (soz for the OT)
     
  12. Humus

    Humus Crazy coder
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    You mean sort of like the DX SDK sample?
     
  13. Davros

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    well anything as long as it looks cool (being you im sure it will)
     
  14. Richard

    Richard Mord's imaginary friend
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    http://shadershock.tk/

    There are 2.0 and 2.0b fixes available. Using the later shows a lot of visual improvements.
     
  15. ANova

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    Oh sure, and let me just flush money down the drain while I'm at it. :roll:

    The demo runs around 40-50 fps on my X850 XT at 1280x720 with the latest patch and everything on max except force global lighting. Yet my card is "outdated." Yeah, ok.

    I'm tired of people with q6600s and 8800s presuming to know what's outdated and what's not then calling me an idiot for not upgrading from my perfectly good card because of a mostly unimportant variation in an api which most of them don't even have a clue about.
     
  16. swaaye

    swaaye Entirely Suboptimal
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    This "small" variation was apparently large enough for Irrational to decide to skip it. I think you should go yell at ATI for making 2 generations of SM2-only cards. R420 was out of date from the get go. Not to say I didn't enjoy my X800GTO2, but it wasn't putting out at 1920x1200 and so it got tossed once a decent alternative was available when I could do my 2 generation jump.

    And I bet the reason your X850 XT is running the Bioshock mod so well is because they haven't gotten all of the shader effects working. Considering they probably won't be able to, that will also probably cause the card to be uncharacteristically fast; sort of like X850 XT vs 6800 Ultra in Oblivion with and without HDR, which X850 couldn't support.

    I see they are hacking in fake HDR for Bioshock, just like Timeslip did with Oblivion.

    You can begin to see why Irrational may have decided to skip the limited number of R4x0 people. The cards can't run with the same effects. And 360 just happens to be SM3-esque as well, so the popularly of SM3 would vastly outstrip R4x0 numbers. I'd imagine Irrational just decided that since they'd have to rework the game visually to run on SM2 hardware, and that only perhaps R4x0 cards could really handle it well, they decided to skip it.

    P.S. wow is that a NASTY post I made earlier! :twisted:
     
    #36 swaaye, Sep 3, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2007
  17. ShaidarHaran

    ShaidarHaran hardware monkey
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    I see you missed my follow-up post....

     
  18. ANova

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    No. :nope:

    How many games now have been SM3 exclusive three years later? Oh that's right, enough to count on one hand and all TWIMTBP if I remember correctly.

    Yes, but that doesn't mean the game couldn't be playable. If a 6600 GT can play the game an X850 XT can handle it. The fake HDR is the result of one individual playing around, I really don't much care for HDR at any rate nor do I see how this relates to the subject.

    Well, la dee da. I guess I should thank 2K for not caring. They supported SM3 because the game was a port and because they didn't want to use the time to implement SM2. The number of R4x0 owners is larger than you think. The thread at 2K is 209 pages and a petition that someone created has 6138 signatures and growing.
     
  19. AlexV

    AlexV Heteroscedasticitate
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    OMG, it's a bloody revolution...oh wait, ppl tend to gang up when it comes to bitching, so that's hardly surprising. The thread about the supposed rootkit is of a similar size, no?And the fact that an online petition exists certainly lends credence to the claim, yes sir!

    Look, I have nothing against the fact that you and a bunch of other dudes don't want to upgrade. Everyone's entitled to their choice...but why you feel that your choice must result in freezing everything in time and torturing those of us who actually realise that sooner or later one has to move forward, if he plans on entertaing a hobby that is anything but cheap(yup, that hobby would be gaming), that I cannot understand.

    Is it so hard to process the fact that SM3.0 brings some significant(IMHO) benefits in terms of flexibility WRT your shaders?So, of course 2K could've spent a lot of time researching how to fit their stuff into SM2.0, unlooping shaders, compiling metric fucktons of little shaders instead of using uber-shaders and so on. The question is, why would they?Because there are about 10000(considering the petition's rate of growth) time-frozen customers they'll lose?I think between the x360 and the PC-version they can handle that loss.

    Don't you think it's fairly childish to consider that the only alternative is to be a disgruntled x800 owner or a haughty q6600+8800GTX one?There are cards and CPUs in-between. At more than decent prices. If you want to entertain your hobby...with the price you pay for three major titles, you could get one of those decent cards.
     
  20. ANova

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    Don't you think it's childish to be attacking users of hardware in defense of the little old corporations that don't give a flying fuck?

    That thinking is irrational (no pun intended) and illogical. Hey, when something doesn't work lets just throw money at it and ridicule those who don't regardless of whether the hardware is fast and capable enough!

    Ah the way of thinking in the idiotic e-penis world. :-x
     
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