Logical Fallacies - Cheap Bastards with DSUB Displays with High-End Video Cards

Discussion in '3D Hardware, Software & Output Devices' started by Davros, Sep 30, 2013.

  1. Wynix

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,052
    Likes Received:
    57
    Where do you guys manage to find monitors without HDMI, DVI-D or Display ports? Are these bottom of the barrel monitors or are they several years old?
     
  2. Davros

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    Messages:
    15,858
    Likes Received:
    3,060
    according to the slide there is still 2 mini dp
    but if you have displayport why have hdmi and dvi those people can just buy an adapter cant they ? or is it only o.k to drop support for interfaces you dont have ?
    varies by region but in the u.k hdmi is rare on monitors.and amd are apparently dropping dvi-i support entirely not just on $600 cards

    ps: I made a post in 2011 the u.k largest physical retailer of p.c upgrades (pc-world)
     
  3. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    14,081
    Likes Received:
    651
    Location:
    O Canada!
    Read my post above again.
     
  4. silent_guy

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,754
    Likes Received:
    1,380
    Buying an adapter is definitely an option, but why saddle your customers spending money on that? Especially since the vast majority of the installed based of 1920x1080+ monitors is probably still DVI.

    Yes, that, and the fact that DSUB VGA has lower quality, unlike the others. And it requires a DAC on-die, which is likely to be bigger than a pure digital interface.

    Look: Hercules is gone. So is CGA and EGA. ISA is no more, neither is EISA and old school PCI. My 5 1/2 floppies are a distance memory, but maybe I can find a 3 1/2 one somewhere, but of course drives for it have long disappeared.(*) I still have a clickety-clack IBM PC keyboard, but no matter how hard I try, that huge round connector just doesn't want to fit into my USB port.

    VGA is next. Just accept it. Nobody owes you anything.


    (*) I was wrong! Looks like 3 1/2" drives are still being manufactured, so it can't be outdated! :twisted:
     
  5. Pressure

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    1,425
    Likes Received:
    352
    Funny, Apple have been using DVI since 1999 and then replaced by Mini DisplayPort in 2008.

    I don't know a single person who still has a VGA monitor?! I would rather they ditched DVI-D on high-end graphic cards as well and just used Mini DisplayPort.
     
  6. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    9,088
    Likes Received:
    2,955
    Location:
    Finland
    Maybe it's just you at UK then, I can't personally even remember last time seeing D-SUB-only display for sale, aside from some speciality displays with insane pricetags
     
  7. Alexko

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    4,515
    Likes Received:
    934
    Got it, thanks.
     
  8. Davros

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    Messages:
    15,858
    Likes Received:
    3,060
    Ahh, so the below quote applies to certain territories (and possibly market segments ?)
    Maybe dsub is the highend ;)
    Considering dsub only monitors was a reaction to an E.U tax I'm surprised it only seems to be the U.k where they are common. They seem to be rare in the rest of the E.U according to posters here.
    even my Samsung T.V has a dsub as well as dvi/svideo/rf/scart - what a wonderful interface scart is ;)
    Thats it I'm going to campaign to Amd to introduce scart :D
     
  9. Malo

    Malo Yak Mechanicum
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Messages:
    7,626
    Likes Received:
    3,691
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    lol great thread subject.
     
  10. Davros

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    Messages:
    15,858
    Likes Received:
    3,060
  11. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2002
    Messages:
    10,801
    Likes Received:
    2,175
    Location:
    La-la land
    Yes, this. Thank you! DVI is a pain-in-the-bitch connector. For starters it's friggin enormous, so it blocks air vents on high end vidcards, and like any D-shaped connector with discrete pins it's very hard to plug in blind behind/under a PC or monitor. All that coupled with that heavy, thick and rigid cable - especially for dual-link DVI, and often coupled with big fat ferrite beads adding even more weight near the ends - it becomes very unwieldy. And don't get me started on when the screw standoff comes out of the video card connector when you unscrew the cable...jesus.

    I. Friggin. Hate. DVI.

    (Not as much as I hate VGA though. Death to VGA I say, and death to anyone who defends it.)
     
  12. CaptainGinger

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2004
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    47
    Yes it's possible to buy a cheap VGA only monitor. It is also possible to buy a DVI-D equipped monitor for the same price from the same store. http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/deskt...f-ultra-thin-23-led-monitor-07677510-pdt.html

    It is also possible to buy an IPS monitor with VGA, HDMI and DVI all included for £10 more. http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/deskt...-22ea63v-22-ips-led-monitor-21324849-pdt.html

    Which of these monitors would best serve your customers and why?

    That's an honest question btw as you seem to be genuinely peeved that you can't connect a 290x to a VGA only monitor without a £14 adapter.
     
  13. Wynix

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,052
    Likes Received:
    57
    Here is one for the same price that includes HDMI,DVI & VGA: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asus-VE228H...646729&sr=1-3&keywords=monitor#productDetails

    It looks to me like VGA only monitors are low end devices that are slowly being phased out.

    AMD has no reason to use analog inputs on their high end cards when it's being phased out and is only needed for cheap ass monitors used by people who will most likely not buy a high end GPU.
     
  14. Davros

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    Messages:
    15,858
    Likes Received:
    3,060
    It's all of their cards and their apu's
     
  15. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    14,081
    Likes Received:
    651
    Location:
    O Canada!
    No, its not.
     
  16. Davros

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    Messages:
    15,858
    Likes Received:
    3,060
    Not the case according to the article you linked to
    Removal of analog support will cause problems for some people. I feel for them
    it's called empathy I know the "as long as I'm personally alright, I don't care about other people" is quite prevalent here, but I'm not like that.
    Instead of asking me why I'm against replacing dvi-i with dvi-d why are you for it when it will make zero difference to you ?
    I dont see any downside to keeping it (apart from the very remote chance the couple of dollars saved wont be passed onto you)

    remove dvi-i = no difference for me will cause some people problems
    keep dvi-i = no difference for me, no difference for other people
    wheres the logic in me or anyone supporting removal ?
     
  17. WaltC

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    2,710
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    BelleVue Sanatorium, Billary, NY. Patient privile
    Microsoft has estimated of late (like, uh, the company is waking up to realize where its real markets are) that somewhere between ~1.4-1.5B (as in "billion") non-touch PCs are currently in use world-wide and are definite markets for Windows, most of which are already running some version of Windows or DOS. Analog monitor connections (not CRTs!) are the only things useful for this gigantic trove of hardware. Prediction, it will be quite sometime before analog (VGA) circuitry is phased out for good. Personally speaking, its presence doesn't bother me because I haven't used it for several years--HDMI since ~'08, give or take a year. But--my very young grandson's laptop is an old AMD Dell notebook with a 64-bit Sempron inside, two gigs of ram, hard drive, and a Radeon mobility something or other (13?)running under Win7x64--anyway, I hooked him up a 1920x1080 LCD through VGA and was pleased as punch to discover that the ATi mobility chip supported that resolution without a problem--it hands off the picture to the external monitor. (Not good for games, of course.) I think VGA connectors will be with us for quite sometime, actually.

    But, really, who cares? As long as I don't have to use it I don't mind the presence of the connector. Not in the least threatening...;)

    Edit: I'll tell you what I find bizarre. Motherboards today with PS/2 mouse connectors! Egad!
     
    #37 WaltC, Oct 1, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 1, 2013
  18. Kyyla

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2003
    Messages:
    1,026
    Likes Received:
    307
    Location:
    Finland
    I don't see how any of that is relevant to removing of the vga connector from a monster high end video card. You'd have to be out of your mind to plug this thing into a vga monitor.
     
  19. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    14,081
    Likes Received:
    651
    Location:
    O Canada!
    You can apply that logic to any legacy technology - i.e. why does the display industry industry not keep support SCART, why do GPU vendors not support AGP, etc.

    Constant support of legacy functions for dwindling return equals worse support for new functions and the majority of people paying for functionality they do not require. Removing legacy technology means the costs for supporting that functionality can either be passed back to the end user by through direct cost returns, or using that silicon/BOM cost for more performance or relevant features, as well as better support for more relevant features/technologies.
     
  20. Wynix

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,052
    Likes Received:
    57
    Those using that "trove" of hardware obviously don't want to spend money to upgrade their system, so why should new and expensive products support them if they have no intention of purchasing said products.

    AMD and other manufacturers obviously care as they are the ones phasing it out due to it being replaced by a superior connector.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...