Lockheed Real3D demo footage [Pro/1000 ?] from Comdex 1997

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by Megadrive1988, Oct 18, 2013.

  1. Megadrive1988

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    Wow well it seems I just got lucky with this. Stumbled on footage of a few Lockheed Martin Real3D demos from a Comdex show in 1997.

    Skip to 5:38
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THAiyu-a74I

    You can make out the Real3D logo above the monitor, and you see the logo rotating real time in the video.

    I believe the demo the guy is playing, the space flight-sim, has to be related to the image of the fighter-ships in this promotional flyer:

    [​IMG]

    Then @ 6:17 you see a city scene with some cars.
    We saw pictures of that demo in two separate articles in Next Generation magazine in 1995.

    (3 images on the lower-left)
    http://i50.tinypic.com/smyc1h.jpg

    (3 images at the bottom)
    http://i.imgur.com/10BH7EI.jpg

    Finally it switches over to someone playing a Virtua Fighter 3 arcade cab.

    The video cannot be from the consumer chip that was codenamed Auburn, released as i740 in 1998, used in Real3D's Star Fighter cards and Intel integrated graphics.
    Otherwise there would be a PC somewhere, I would think. Plus the demos are just way too smooth.

    Seems Real3D/Pro-1000 fits the bill, though I'm not absolutely certain.
    Edit: Yeah it's Pro-1000.

    Thoughts?
     
    #1 Megadrive1988, Oct 18, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2013
  2. Davros

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    I remember really looking forward to the i740
    You had lockheed martin who for years had been doing graphics far ahead of anything seen on the pc
    Then Intel who's rnd budget was probably 10x the total worth of all the competition combined.
    How could they not produce a graphics card that would totally blow away the competition.
    And then it came out, it wasnt a bad card but it wasnt great either.

    Found this interesting comment from the dude who designed the i740
    1: A non 3dfx chip with glide support would of been interesting
    2: surprised to know that 3dfx would license it to 3rd parties, iirc creative's unified didn't have 3dfx's approval

    ps: just for giggles Jay Sturges had his own 640kb ought to be enough for anyone moment
     
  3. Megadrive1988

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    We were lead to believe in 1995-1996 that the R3D/100 card would be the consumer product for late '96 or at least by '97. It would have on-board (or on-chip) geometry processing that would allow a low-end Pentium or even a 486 PC produce better than Sega Model 2 visuals with more polys (R3D/100: 750K / sec with all features vs Model 2: 300K / sec which were only textured). Although they did not communicate a level of hype that seemed unrealistic, it sounded really damn good, and for about $200 as well. I think that was a reasonable thing because the Model 2 board did not technically use a Real3D chip, it used much older silicon from Martin Marietta designed in 1993, while Real3D/100 was announced in 1995, slated for release in 1996.

    Instead however, Lockheed Martin / Real3D, Chips & Technologies and Intel produced a lower-spec design without a geometry engine that wasn't released on time. The i740 came out early '98, around the time 3Dfx launched Voodoo2. Nvidia had RIVA 128 and the second generation PowerVR was on the horizion, though it too was heavily delayed on PC. The i740-based StarFighter cards had roughly Voodoo1 performance with better image quality. Not awful, but not great either. If I'm not mistaken, the situation was not helped that i740 only supported Direct3D when Real3D's higher-end designs supported OpenGL.

    I never understood, at the time, why Real3D and Intel did not shrink the actual R3D/100 down into a single chip. Intel probably could've fabbed it on a smaller node/process and with their ability to mass produce, the price could've been reasonable, especially with falling DRAM prices in 1996-97.

    Then again from what has been posted here in the past, the R3D/100 announced in 1995 was never actually fully realized with a geometry engine. The boards were meant to have three processors:
    geometry, graphics (pixel) and texture. The geometry chip was missing from the boards:

    [​IMG]
     
    #3 Megadrive1988, Oct 18, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2013
  4. Davros

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    Just to point out the i740 when it was first released was the only card at the time to have an opengl icd
    under win 95
     
  5. Megadrive1988

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    Ah you're right, forgot about that, it did have OpenGL.
     
  6. Davros

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    I found something interesting on b3d from googleing
    Rys has kept [EOCF]tim waiting 5 years to look in his collection to see if he as a R3D/100 in his collection
    5 YEARS RYS thats slow even by your standards :D
     
  7. swaaye

    swaaye Entirely Suboptimal
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    Why types of RAM are on that R100 board? Looks like VRAM and some sort of special MoSyS stuff. I suppose the MoSyS memory might be SDRAM?
     
  8. Putas

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    It ain't good quality but I dare to say those demos do not show graphics above abilities of i740.

    One reason why Intel did not aim higher ought to be AGP texturing, can't go very high-end with that. Price/performance was great though. In powerful PC the i740 beats Voodoo decisively.

    They were making casual SGRAM as well, this card looks like the case.
     
  9. Tahir2

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    Had an i740 in my first ever PC - was not too bad.

    I remember the Lockheed boards (model 1, 2 and 3) and followed the transition from Virtua Fighter and Virtua Racing (flat shaded polygons) to Virtua Fighter 2 (texture mapping) to Virtua Fighter 3 (textured and shaded polygons.)

    From memory the consumer level tech and the arcade level tech approximately was a 93 million miles apart due to cost and size of the boards.. That was the golden age of arcade - nowadays the market doesn't exist to design custom boards just for arcade cabinets.
     
  10. Megadrive1988

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    It was early 1995 when Real3D was formed and R3D/100 was announced. IIRC it may have been slated as a late 1995 product but would then slip into 1996.

    Here's the article w/spec & diagram published in the August 1995 Next Generation (#8).

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    press release from March 1995:


    MoSys was to provide its MDRAM for R3D/100

    http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Lockh...+to+bring+real-time+3D+graphics...-a016732734



    I don't know if the 2/3 finished R3D/100 (I say 2/3 since there was no geometry processor on the boards) used MoSys RAM or not.
     
  11. Megadrive1988

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    Well I have to disagree.

    While it's true the quality of the video is very poor, the R3D/Pro-1000 image generator/GPU of 1995/96 was a good bit beyond the i740 chip in the StarFighter cards that was finished in 1997, released in '98.

    The i740 certainly could not compete with the twin R3D/Pro-1000 configuration of the Model 3 board.



    i740 certainly inherited good image quality and the feature-set from its older brothers (100 and 1000) but not the same performance. I could only say i740 was ahead of the then-ancient Martin Marietta silicon in Model 2 which was designed between 1992 and 1993.
     
  12. swaaye

    swaaye Entirely Suboptimal
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    When do you guys think PC passed by Model 3? GeForce 2 GTS perhaps?
     
  13. Putas

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    Just no. True color was cut down, proper alpha blending added. I have yet to see a Model 3 game the (dual) i740 could not do.
     
  14. Megadrive1988

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    That doesn't make any sense. i740's performance was well below that of a single Voodoo 2 and Voodoo 2 had nowhere near the performance of the twin Pro-1000 Model 3 board.
     
  15. Putas

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    Yeah it does not make sense if you believe this.
     
  16. swaaye

    swaaye Entirely Suboptimal
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    That's interesting. I had never considered Voodoo2 perhaps being similar in capability to Model 3. But looking at the screenshots on System 16, and considering the low resolution...

    I suppose that makes the Voodoo3-based Atari Denver quite competitive with Model 3. Perhaps aside from geometry performance?
     
  17. Megadrive1988

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    Yeah, I think that's probably about right. I'd say Voodoo 3 (and TNT2 Ultra) were competitive with Model 3 for the most part. They still had to rely on a fast CPU to provide geometry / T&L though of course.
    Whereas Model 3's PowerPC 603 CPU running @ 66 / 100 / 166 MHz, was free to run the game.

    It really was not until the GeForce 256 and GeForce 2 GTS / GeForce 2 Ultra came along in 1999/2000 that PC graphics cards rivaled Model 3. The major shortcoming of Model 3 was its low resolution.

    It really was something given that the heart of Model 3 (two R3D/Pro-1000s) is really 1995 technology which powered arcade games that only started getting released. in the 2nd half of 1996. It took PC 3D hardware about 4 to 5 years to catch up.
     
  18. swaaye

    swaaye Entirely Suboptimal
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    Also interesting to me is Model 3 having seriously expensive GPU hardware but then using the low end PowerPC 603. Granted that is still clearly more powerful than the consoles of the time.
     
  19. Megadrive1988

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    Indeed, Model 3 was far beyond the PS1, N64, any PC 3D card of the day as well as the unreleased (in console form anyway) 3DO / Matsushita M2 hardware.

    Even with Dreamcast's newer and *mostly* superior hardware, there were aspects of Model 3 that were better according to the head of one of Sega's AM departments who was interviewed in some issue of Next Generation. I very much doubt Dreamcast could've handled a flawless port of Daytona USA 2, even if a top Sega team took a lot of time with it. The older Model 3 games? not much of a problem but Daytona USA 2 on the Step 2.1 board used a lot of texture swapping tricks, according to that interview.

    That said, with the release of GameCube and Xbox in 2001, consoles had finally well surpassed Model 3.
     
  20. swaaye

    swaaye Entirely Suboptimal
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