Lawyers getting creative again - TROUBLE!!!

K.I.L.E.R said:
http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20030821-023351-5102r.htm

"CAIRO, Aug. 21 (UPI) -- A dean at Egypt's University of Al-Zaqaziq is preparing a lawsuit against "all the Jews of the world," accusing them of stealing gold during the exodus."

:LOL:

The RIAA way, subpeona them all. :LOL:
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That's of course assuming that the Exodus happened as described in the Bible. More recent archeological research shows that pretty much everything in the Torah/Old Testament is part of one gigantic historic forgery (including the glorious Salomonic united monarchy which seemingly never existed), probably by a bunch of extremist Jahwe priests during the reign of Josiah (~ 7th-8th centrury BC).
 
zurich said:
Surprised no one's tried to charge them for killing Jesus :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:


(that was a joke)
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Didn't God have Jesus killed so his sacrifice enables us to redeem ourselves from our sins by accepting Jesus as our saviour?

Wait, isn't Jesus = God? God killed himself so he could forgive us our sins? And what's so great about this sacrifice if you rise from the dead a couple of days later - kinda makes the sacrifice meaningless, no? Christianity makes no fucking sense AT ALL.
 
L233 said:
zurich said:
Surprised no one's tried to charge them for killing Jesus :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:


(that was a joke)
Click to expand...

Didn't God have Jesus killed so his sacrifice enables us to redeem ourselves from our sins by accepting Jesus as our saviour?

Wait, isn't Jesus = God? God killed himself so he could forgive us our sins? And what's so great about this sacrifice if you rise from the dead a couple of days later - kinda makes the sacrifice meaningless, no? Christianity makes no fucking sense AT ALL.
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No kidding ;)

Well, waaaaaay back in private school (it was Anglican), we learned in 'Christian Knowledge' class that the Jews appealed to the Romans to have Jesus killed for trying to create a new subversive religion.. although, according to the ADL backlash against 'The Passion' (in which the above is portrayed), that's 'anti-semetic'. So go figure!
 
Yeah, that has been Xian dogma for a long time. Jesus might have been executed by the Romans but the execution was a result of Jewish scheming. Of course, Jesus was a Jew und he saw himself as a Jew.

Besides that, in yet another mind-bending twisting of logic, Xians turn around and believe that Jesus's blood sacrifice (that's just so damn... caveman) is the prerequisite for salvation and that the whole purpose of God having himself killed is to allow himself to forgive us our sins. So if the Jews simply did what was required of them according to God's grand plan for universal salvation, then where is the crime?

The biggest problem of Xianity is that it's not conclusive even if you work under the premise that there is a God and Jesus is his "son". Judaism is internally conclusive if you can ignore the fact that the biblical history of the Hebrew people is full of shit. Islam is conclusive if you can bring yourself to believe that Muhammed is God's prophet. Accepting those premises, Judaism and Islam at least don't defy logic. Xianity does to the extreme, it just makes no sense no matter how one tries to spin it.
 
Nothing like a big old paint brush to use on everybody, especially when its white washed in ignorance.

In general, Christians don't blame the jews as a whole. The scheming on the part of the jews was done by the parasees--the priests and people in charge. Hitler did blame all jews, to stir up an already anti-semetic atmosphere to enact what he wanted.

As for blood sacrifice: the Jewish faith demands blood sacrifice for atonement. So does the Islamic faith. For christianity, God took human form to become that sacrifice for mankind. I don't see how that's any more contradictory or illogical than an all powerful being demanding you to slaughter cattle (or your child, in the case of Abraham). If anything, its progressive!
 
L233:

Yes, and let us remember how Mohammed at first wanted to keep the two moon goddesses, then much later had a stroke of "divine intervention" that told him that these were "satanicly inspired verses." That makes real fucking sense. Bottom line: If you want to crap over other people religions or beliefs (which you seem to relish) then please sir crap all over your own.
 
RussSchultz said:
In general, Christians don't blame the jews as a whole. The scheming on the part of the jews was done by the parasees--the priests and people in charge. Hitler did blame all jews, to stir up an already anti-semetic atmosphere to enact what he wanted.
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I said is has been Xian dogma for a long time. Read what reformers like Luther wrote. Read the crap the Catholic Church churned out for centuries. Hell, the Vatican didn't even have diplomatic contact with Israel until recently for exactly that reason.

This sentiment was/is a religious one. Hitler didn't invent it, in fact, he never even used it, at least not to my knowledge. This particular Xian anti-semitic sentiment was already ancient when Hitler startet to put his racist fever dreams into words. Hitler blamed the Jews for WW1, for ruining Germany's economy, for deteriorating the racial stock of Aryans, for robbing hard working Germans and for about every single global mischief he could come up with. I'd be grateful if you could point me to any of Hitler's speeches or writings in which he made a major point in condemning the Jews for killing Jesus.

As for blood sacrifice: the Jewish faith demands blood sacrifice for atonement. So does the Islamic faith. For christianity, God took human form to become that sacrifice for mankind.
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Oh I see.

God demands blood sacrifices. So God has himself killed to placate himself.

Wow, thanks for clearing that up. Makes a whole hell of a lot more sense now.


I don't see how that's any more contradictory or illogical than an all powerful being demanding you to slaughter cattle (or your child, in the case of Abraham). If anything, its progressive!
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It's not progressive, it's still bullshit. As you point out, it makes absolutely no sense that an all-powerful being "requires" a blood sacrifice. A perfect being is by definition a being in equilibrium. It can't have wants or needs that have to be fulfilled.

So yes, you are right. From that point of view, Judaism and Islam aren't internally conclusive either. Suits me just as well, even though the whole killing-himself-to-placate-himself circle sure is particularly preposterous. And it really is the CORE of Xian superstition.
 
Willmeister said:
Wasn't it the Roman governor Pilot who 'threw the switch?' I didn't know Pilot was a Jew...
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Yes, but he is depicted as believing Jesus' innocence and only fulfilling the will of the people.
 
It's funny, these days, when people see other change their mind or more overtly what they say. They're back peddlers, liars, side stepping.... all these negative conatations, so much for giving people the benifit of the doubt or bucking that man is born evil and all that jazz.

I wonder why can't people just think they changed their mind when they saw reason. Funny, that. They HAVE to see the other basically humiliate themselves in some public fashion and admit to some great stroke of stupidity, because that's all that satisfies the asshole who can only think bad of others. Don't say otherwise, I see this on these forums plenty. I can't really recall an instance, where this doesn't happen.
 
L233: You weren't necessarily rude to me directly, but your posts express continual vulgar disrespect toward religion in general.

It makes discussing comparitive theology well, an unpleasant experience.
 
L233 said:
Didn't God have Jesus killed so his sacrifice enables us to redeem ourselves from our sins by accepting Jesus as our saviour?

Wait, isn't Jesus = God? God killed himself so he could forgive us our sins? And what's so great about this sacrifice if you rise from the dead a couple of days later - kinda makes the sacrifice meaningless, no? Christianity makes no sense AT ALL.
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No God didn't have Jesus killed, the Jewish authorities did.

God "knew" that Jesus would be killed, but that's not the same thing. Whatever Jesus' message to the Jews was/is, it was important enough for him to make the ultimate sacrifice.
 
God determined their actions though, speaking from a Christian perspective. He created the universe knowing exactly how it would play out. Their choice was free in that it was of their own, but they themselves were the product of a predetermined plan ... personally I would call the real choice the choice of the actual plan, the predetermined choices of some actors in the predetermined play which it describes are not on the same level.
 
No God didn't have Jesus killed, the Jewish authorities did.
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Jewish authorities in a Roman province? The Romans made the final call. Pilot offered up a choice and the Jewish population chose to have Jesus crucified because his preachings were dividing the population and the Romans used it to maximum effect. I think the whole story about the crucifixion and resurrection is a load of crap added in by Roman converts after his death... If you realize how much of the old Roman sun worship was added to early Christianity, one really has to wonder how valid the history they committed to paper, years or centuries later, actually was. It's also interesting to note the early Church deliberately didn't include the Goespel of Thomas, which is basically quotes from Jesus. This omission has piqued my interest. I wonder what bombshells are contained in them though (if any)...
 
Willmeister said:
Jewish authorities in a Roman province? The Romans made the final call. Pilot offered up a choice and the Jewish population chose to have Jesus crucified because his preachings were dividing the population and the Romans used it to maximum effect.
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The Jewish authorities were not allowed to put a man to death, so they handed Jesus over to the Roman governor, Pilot, as a political agitator. Pilot wanted to free Jesus, so he offered the people a choice of Jesus or Barrabas (sic?) and the Jews chose Barrabas.

Yes Pilot made the final decision, but the reason for Jesus' death was the hate and envy of the Jewish authorities.
 
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