Kinect technology thread

Which begs the question, what's going to happen when Kinect 2 lands (if it comes out at Xbox 3's launch) will devs still support the current Kinect or move to 2 or what.

They will support both when applicable and only the newer one if refinements in technology/application doesn't lend itself to the cruder form of the interface.
 
AND it's only VGA now, before it was 1.3 MP and the mic doesn't track multiple voices and all the onboard processing hardware has been removed.

How can it possibly cost 150 to make? Usually manufacturing costs don't include R&D costs

The components don't cost that much, so what, are they getting Swiss watchmakers to put it together.

It was never a 1.3 MP camera, where are you getting that info from?
 
It was never a 1.3 MP camera, where are you getting that info from?
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/microsoft-xbox-360-natal-xbox360,news-4286.html
Speculation surrounding new Xbox 360 hardware is back, as Digitimes reports that Aptina has won exclusive rights to supply a 1.3-megapixel camera part for a new version of the Xbox 360 console for the second half of 2010.
Its becoming more apparent that the 'real' natal will ship with the next xbox, the $150 price is so at least kinect will not incur any money loses for MS. The problem though with such a strategy is they might spoil the publics desire to buy into natal in ~2013 if the version this year (not 100%) bombs.
 
I remember Arwin mentioned that 1.3MP refers to the photo mode only. The video has always been 640x480 @ 30fps.

I missed the video spec. Found out only from the MS Store page for Kinect.
 
...the mic doesn't track multiple voices and all the onboard processing hardware has been removed.
The mic hasn't changed, being nothing more than an array of microphones. The ability to track voices is software based and I don't think the software exists to do effective multispeaker tracking and voice recognition, espcially robustly in every conceivable room configuration.
How can it possibly cost 150 to make? Usually manufacturing costs don't include R&D costs
It's not $150 to make, it's $150 cost to MS. This is self-evident from the fact the BOM doesn't amount to $150. ;) That figure sounds like an internal talking point, "What does Kinect cost?" "Well we can make 'em for $40 a pop, but we've sunk so much into the R&D and buying Primesense, in real terms every damned device is costing like $150!" And then someone talks to a media outlet and the story is communicated as $150 manufacturing cost, where clearly it isn't.

The internet is 1 part facts to 9 parts speculation, and a lot of what's read is people filling in the blanks. Like I've just done in this post, with my opwn take. Suffice to say nothing can be taken at face value, including 1.3 megapixel cameras. 1.3 megapixel CCDs doesn't necessarily mean the cameras will be working at that resolution. Hence that isn't a down-spec by Microsoft, but people setting expectations and then getting disappointed all of their own accord.
 
I remember initially there was talk about "scanning in" objects to use in games via Natal. All that has dropped by the wayside now, and I'm sure it's for purity of message. Perhaps though I think it might be brought back at some point after release if Natal is a hit. But for now I think they very strictly want to stick to the "controller free" mantra.

Well at least scanning will still be in. You'll be able to scan in the barcodes of supported stuffed animals purchased in stores and have them useable in Natal. So physical DLC basically. So in a way, it's scanning in a physical object to be used in game. Yes, I know it's not exactly what you meant. :)

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/microsoft-xbox-360-natal-xbox360,news-4286.html

Its becoming more apparent that the 'real' natal will ship with the next xbox, the $150 price is so at least kinect will not incur any money loses for MS. The problem though with such a strategy is they might spoil the publics desire to buy into natal in ~2013 if the version this year (not 100%) bombs.

So now we're taking pure unadulterated speculation and rumors as absolute fact? :)

Heck that link is speculation on top of rumor.

Regards,
SB
 
seems unlikely..



RGB - cost $10. Looked online for various prices.
Microphone - probably $10 at most.
Motor and housing - probably $10 at most.

The thing I can't seem to find prices are of the infrared projecter and monochrome cmos detector.


Are they using a "normal" microphone?

Because a somewhat directed microphone that can pick you voice 2 meters away with enought definition recognizable to a software is not in the same league as your everyday micro for gaming/chat purposes.

I guess tthe same could be said for the rest of the components (?).
 
Well at least scanning will still be in. You'll be able to scan in the barcodes of supported stuffed animals purchased in stores and have them useable in Natal. So physical DLC basically. So in a way, it's scanning in a physical object to be used in game. Yes, I know it's not exactly what you meant. :)

You don't need depth info for that. People have been using cellphone camera and web cam to scan traditional barcodes and 2D barcodes for ages. LBP2 will support QR code scanning too. The challenge here is who's going to host the huge catalog ? Amazon has one but I think they closed the XML access to their catalog.
 
You don't need depth info for that. People have been using cellphone camera and web cam to scan traditional barcodes and 2D barcodes for ages. LBP2 will support QR code scanning too. The challenge here is who's going to host the huge catalog ? Amazon has one but I think they closed the XML access to their catalog.

Well, assuming this actually does sell to casuals and kids, I would imagine in your regular department stores, toy stores, etc. I'm not expecting to see much of a presence for these at a Gamestop. In a Walmart, Target or Toys'R'Us, however? Those would be perfect.

BTW - I just found out this summer that Walmart has a large presence here in a Japan, and has had it for quite a long time now at least going back to 2002 or earlier. Surprised me.

Regards,
SB
 
Well, assuming this actually does sell to casuals and kids, I would imagine in your regular department stores, toy stores, etc. I'm not expecting to see much of a presence for these at a Gamestop. In a Walmart, Target or Toys'R'Us, however? Those would be perfect.

They will need a business case to open up the catalog. There are also third parties who maintain product catalogs on behalf of the entire industry. Open access is not cheap (especially if the consumers overload their enterprise servers). There is a reason why Amazon closed their free XML catalog access.
 
Why is the main motion control thread closed for no apparent reason?

And do we know what kind of resolving power a 640x480 res camera can give at the minimum distance (1.8 metres).

Also, can Natal extract a person's image from the background and use it in games, ie. instead of the skinned avatars or other characters you currently see in the launch titles? EyeToy did this right? And that Xbox Vision Camera "You're in the movies" game (albeit badly)
 
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I remember initially there was talk about "scanning in" objects to use in games via Natal. All that has dropped by the wayside now, and I'm sure it's for purity of message.
The point cloud is pretty splodgey. Scanning in objects will only get a general shape from the looks of it, with quite a lot of noise. Think of the person blob in that fitness game - it's not really a well scanned in person that could be placed into a game in anything other than blob form. The tech could be worked into a decent scanner but it'd take time to maneouvre and scan the objects piecemeal, such that it's not a consumer level experience.

Hopefully if Kinect is available for PC, someone will create an object scanner with it, but I doubt it was ever a realistic proposition for game-level content
 
The point cloud is pretty splodgey. Scanning in objects will only get a general shape from the looks of it, with quite a lot of noise. Think of the person blob in that fitness game - it's not really a well scanned in person that could be placed into a game in anything other than blob form. The tech could be worked into a decent scanner but it'd take time to maneouvre and scan the objects piecemeal, such that it's not a consumer level experience.

Hopefully if Kinect is available for PC, someone will create an object scanner with it, but I doubt it was ever a realistic proposition for game-level content

I was thinking about the Child of Eden demo that has been shown, and it struck me that the game uses hands/arms for aiming and shooting, and it almost seems as if the hands are opened/closed. You can see quite a bit of detail in the point cloud representation that is shown in 3D in the fitness game, and this got me wondering whether Child of Eden is perhaps using more detailed information from this point cloud to focus just on the hands, rather than using the default full body frame information that most games use? It looked interesting and natural for such a huge screen, but if you'd do the same thing in front of a small screen that would invite the user automatically to use much smaller movements, which could be a problem.

The point cloud may be splodgy, but it can be quite detailed, if you looked at that scene in the fitness game demonstration, where you could see the garment that was taken off and was pretty faithfully replicated all the way until it hit the ground.
 
Yeah the Child of Eden trailer made me want to buy a really, really big TV :p

I need to stand in front of my wall sized display and do that :LOL: My 42" is woefully inadequate already! :LOL:
 
I was thinking about the Child of Eden demo that has been shown, and it struck me that the game uses hands/arms for aiming and shooting, and it almost seems as if the hands are opened/closed. You can see quite a bit of detail in the point cloud representation that is shown in 3D in the fitness game, and this got me wondering whether Child of Eden is perhaps using more detailed information from this point cloud to focus just on the hands, rather than using the default full body frame information that most games use? It looked interesting and natural for such a huge screen, but if you'd do the same thing in front of a small screen that would invite the user automatically to use much smaller movements, which could be a problem.

The point cloud may be splodgy, but it can be quite detailed, if you looked at that scene in the fitness game demonstration, where you could see the garment that was taken off and was pretty faithfully replicated all the way until it hit the ground.
I don't think their "special tracking" going on, the developer seems to want to act like a "conductor" (for music) He wears white gloves, etc. It's not easy to spot how he exactly switches between "lock and shoot" mode to continuous fire (I wondered if he does based on his left hand position or if it's related to him clapping his hands). So he over does the things for maximum effect, so a dev and a showman :)
 
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I don't think the developer seems to want to act like a "conductor" (for music) He wears white gloves, etc. It's clear to spot how he exactly switch between "lock and shoot" mode to continuous fire (I wondered if he does based on his left hand position or if it's related to him clapping his hands). So he over does the things for maximum effect, so a dev and a showman :)

You're right, I seem to remember a 'swish' movement - that's probably the switch, right?
 
You're right, I seem to remember a 'swish' movement - that's probably the switch, right?
My post was a mess, sorry everybody but I guess you managed to get what I mean.
Really I don't if it's the clapping or his posture, Tetsuya Mizuguchi was almost "choregraphic" to maximize the impact off the demo, he was actually part of the demo imho (nice way to demonstrate how motion controls can make you part of the game by the way). I can't tell.
 
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It might use a targetting system like Rez -- there wasn't a shoot button, but rather it'd fire automatically when you released the lock-on.
 
Sitting with Kinect works with Forza 3...

As for sitting down to play the Forza preview we showed -- I don't expect you to know this of course since you weren't at E3, but you can play the game sitting down and Dan showed this in the demo booth.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=22030301&postcount=586

Kudo Tsunoda confirmed as much on the Engadget Show. Also great behind the scenes tech preview. I'm sure a lot of it will hit YouTube.

Tommy McClain
 
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