Jen-Hsun Talks NV4x

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May I give a bit of personal insight?

Who gives a f********* f*******. Honestly, I mean look at the history of both companies. Both companies have had shares of ups and downs, ATI knows this especially considering they were once THE dominate 3D video chip vendor in the earlier days of 3d computing. By earlier days, I refer to around the time of voodoo. ATI was HUGE with OEMs because their part was a 2d/3d chip, as opposed to voodoo's add in board. Of course, we saw what happened to them between 1997 and 2001. They didn't start getting their act together until R300. And really, had ATI not obtained ArtX chip design patents, would the R300 be what it is today?

Nvidia, since the TNT days, has had a very successful execution of their products. But even around Geforce 2/3 era, we saw similar to what we see today. The GF3 got trounced in DX7 benchmarks by the GF2 Ultra, but as soon as pixel shaders were thrown into the mix, the GF3 shined.

Only now do we see the extent of how different methods perform in different situations because someone out there came out with a product that does similar things in different ways. To put it into perspective, there are many articles over shadowing techniques, antialiasing techniques, anisotropic filtering techniques, etc. that are either better in quality or faster in speed (rarely are they both), and the companies wade through or come up with their own methodson doing these things.

Nvidia (and ATI) may not have made the best decisions with which techniques to use, but nonetheless they have engineers and design teams that know a whole lot about what they're doing and what they're capable of. Granted we didn't see a fix for the texture compression bug in Geforce cards until GF4. ATI's anisotropic filtering technique is also a bit lacking in certain instances.

The key is that there is a LOT that goes into rolling out products. Everything from design to rolling out, to shipment, to the business side of things. Investors and the like, of course. And yes, the marketing. The companies have to make decisions that satisfy all of this criteria.

Given this, I would say that both companies, regardless of a few performance numbers in some meaningless benchmark, have done the best they could given the situations they have.

And please, would some of the people that wish to criticize for 'driver cheating' and things of that sort just shut up and grow up? I'm (as well as others) are sick and tired of hearing it.

I am a gamer. And regardless of if I'm getting 100, 200, or 300 FPS-- I will still always be a gamer, no matter who provides the video chip.

 

Why should he worry, he has BS investors before... "The Nv30 is a holiday product" --- turned out wrong... "we will have record revenue next quarter" (that was for the last quarter) --- wrong again. Those were just off the top of my head (they were from conference calls).

 

More bullshizzle from Nvidia's CEO

anyone remember Nv30 launch and how it was going to kill ATi's R300?


well just keep that in mind when reading this marketing fud.

 

Re: ?

Just as soon as they quit cheating, we're even MORE sick and tired of that.

 

digitalwanderer:

For someone who has a rather voiced opinion on many sites I would expect at least a little more substance and thought from someone such as you. But it appears you're a 'really smart fanboy'.

Nonetheless, the business practices are ethical, normal, and have probably been going on for many years from various companies.

If you don't like how either of the companies do business, you're welcome to start it out on your own and see how far you get in the real world with 100% ethical behavior.

I am always in thoughts over such things. The thought provokes 'why are all managers assholes?' simply because that's the mentality needed to be a manager.

In this world, it's a grueling match for investors, customers, and above all else, money. That's what makes the business world tick. And guess what? They by all means can do whatever is within legal limits to get the money they want.

It's interesting to see the amount of 'stupid users' who of course listen to all of this BS go out and buy based on such recommendations (often buying the top of the line hardware), and unfortunately for the companies these are the customers they have to watch out for.

Nonetheless, it will be an interesting year for pc hardware in general. I look forward to see where (if it goes anywhere at all) this 64-bit idea gets us, and I'm most eager to see PCI Express.

Just remember people. Don't expect exact duplicates of the products that come out.

After all, what ELSE would you all bitch about? mice?

 

Which is in direct proportion to the amount of BS we have had to deal with thanks to NV. This place was pretty even until the R300 launch then after that well..yea...

To inflate benchmarks scores is a bad thing, yes?

 

Sorry for me brevity on the matter, but I've had to address it WAY too many times lately and my rather short post pretty much sums up my attitude rather well.

If it's any consolation, I am working on an editorial right now tentatively entitled "Quit Beating The Dead Horse Already Dig!" that address this very point at some considerable (and rather colorful, I humbly add) lengths.

I figure then I can just point people to the editorial when they say stuff like that and save meself a lot of time.

 

Re: ?

It will become a non-issue (except for historical fact) when Nvidia stop doing it. While Nvidia continue to lie and cheat, people will continue to complain about it. I'm sick and tired of people trying to sweep it under the carpet.

 

What exactly does everyone expect him to say? If you are the CEO of a company, what would you do? And don't give me the song and dance you wouldn't be vague too.

Regardless of how you view Nvidia or Jen-Hsun - I would be more interested in how they face the challenge before them. Sure, maybe NV 30 did not work out as they had planned - so what? Does every project go without a setback?

Nothing is ever easy. And Frankly, to be a CEO of a company with no problems or never face a challenge would be a bore.

Jen-Hsun has his work cut out for him no doubt - and now we get to see what type of CEO he truely is.

 

Looks like a certain manufacturer has their fan following out in full force.
(pfft code some working linux drivers guys)

Tagged for later crow feeding

 

What was interesting at the time, is that Nvidia were promising a November ship for NV30. Then December, then Jan, then Feb, etc. They did a lot of lying to keep people hanging on. It was a spoiler against R300 products, and giving them time to try and stabilise the speeds of NV30.

However, at the same time, some of the investor comentators who had been getting financial info from Nvidia were unequivical about a April/May ship time, which turned out to be correct. Obviously there are a lot more legal reasons why companies have to be more truthful to investor relations, and so the info that comes out of the investment commentators seems to be based on more solid information than what we get through the press releases and deliberate PR leaks.

 

Do you really think Nvidia bussiness going down has no connection to their ethical attitude?

No. no . . .

 

ahh, logged in.

NV40 has a lot to live up to and I for one believe that nVidia has NOT EARNED the privledge of being #1

I think that a while longer at #2 will cause nVidia to do one of the following

a. reprioritize and get back to making quality hardware

or

b. quit

Nvidia's CEO has said some pretty whack things in the past along the lines of

We'll crush R300 with NV30
You must be smoking something like the peace pipe...
Cinematic computing

If you honestly look at the ATi and Nvidia since the Radeon/GF2 days, you can clearly see why the two companies changed position. It appears that Dave Orton was the best thing to happen to ATi and Jen-Hung was the worst thing to happen to Nvidia (he reminds me of Nintendo's CEO) as he is slowly killing is company by allowing the driver team to restort to driver hacks and the like to TRY and remain competitive.

There is a reason that ATi got chosen for X-box and Nintendo's next consoles and I have not doubt it was due to superior hardware and the fact that ATi didn't sue MS.........

 

at least one of those is true though...

the NV30 WOULD have crushed the R300... I mean for crying out loud... did you see the SIZE of that thing ?

one FlowFX thinger would be enough to crush 10 R300's...

 

Re: ?

All companies cheat and lie to their customers, so grown-ups shouldn't care when certain companies don't even change when found out, but just keep pissing on their customers? And of course, politicians are all evil cheating bastards, and grown-ups know this so they don't care about it? All police are on the take, and grown-ups know this, so its actually OK?

Well, my parents never shared that attitude, I do not, and I hope my children never will. One hell of a lot of people, and the corporations they work in, subscribe to different ethics, and that's the reason society ticks along as well as it does, warts and all.

 

probably not in that order though....

 

http://www.nvidia.com/object/1993_timeline.html

I recommend reading that.

 

Without wanting to stray TOO far off of the topic at hand, the question I ask everyone in this position is "What are you going to do about it?" It's all good and dandy to sit back and whine about it from the comfort of your bedroom, but vocality is lost by most people almost immediately when they have to do it in person.



It's inevitable that companies and CEOs are greedy. However, I wouldn't dare say Nvidia is anywhere close to unethical. After being investigated by the SEC, and it turned up that they are doing just fine with their business practice, I SERIOUSLY don't see where the problem is. Investors put a LOT of money into a company to see continued financial growth. Investors are what drive the companies, not us. Without significant monetary potential, they wouldn't do what they do. They sure as hell don't do it for us to play games faster, if that's what YOU think.

So when you look at the unethical companies, Enron, Worldcom, who knows how many countless others--it puts things into perspective.

Both Nvidia and ATI are okay in my book.

 

I don't see what an SEC investigation has to do with Nvidia's treatment of their customers. Falling within the law doesn't equate to ethical.

The problem is that Nvidia is telling you are getting something you aren't. A 4 pipeline card is fine, Brilinear may be fine in most cases, but don't try and tell me I am getting something else. Yes most customers are mindless zombies who read the box and buy the one that sounds the best, I think part of the job of being a good human being is to help them by being vocal when we perceive a problem that others may not. And it is most certainly the job of websites like B3d to find and expose the truth. While I agree you don't have to comment in every thread that nvidia is cheating/evil, I certainly don't think you should bury your head in the sand and ignore what they are doing.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-Edmund Burke