JC on iOS Rage, what it is versus what it could be

[Entropy]

Why ?, I think you are confusing the traditional PC market with the iphone/itouch market. They are ENTIRELY different.

One assuming many many more women and younger children/teens (again many more female) play games on itouch/iphone than ever would on the PC platform. Angry birds is a much more "friendly", light game to play, and in those terms is much more accessible.

Not to mention that the game costs one dollar, has no control issues, allows progression on multiple levels, has loads of content, and is continually updated with more. And it's fun.

Furthermore it is designed for handhelds rather than adapted to the platform. The control issues that seems inherent in the second approach have ruined too many games for me - for instance, no more virtual joysticks please. If you don't have the real thing, come up with something better, not a cludgy simacrulum.

The handheld market holds the potential to rewrite the gaming landscape radically - what gets mainstream attention, which companies are dominant and/or creative and/or distinctive. JC makes interesting observations about creativity and how difficult it is to break the mold in the current gaming landscape. Change of the status quo is welcome IMHO, it's about time for disruption.

 

[Ailuros]

The handheld market holds the potential to rewrite the gaming landscape radically - what gets mainstream attention, which companies are dominant and/or creative and/or distinctive. JC makes interesting observations about creativity and how difficult it is to break the mold in the current gaming landscape. Change of the status quo is welcome IMHO, it's about time for disruption.

I agree 100%.

 

[wco81]

I think the dedicated handheld market is shrinking.

So Nintendo 3DS will succeed but not the PSP2.

Rest is smart phones for casuals and even some hardcore gamers will only carry their phones, get short gaming fixes when they have free time, then game seriously at home.

So mobile gaming complements console/PC with simple, cheap, "good enough" game control little games.

If tablets take off and more touch-centric games are developed, maybe these mobile games start to encroach into gaming at home as well. Maybe people who play Pogo or similar social/casual games grab their tablet and sit back on the couch rather than sit up at a desk with a computer.

Will all these mobile games in the aggregate produce more revenues than console/PC games?

 

[RudeCurve]

I think the dedicated handheld market is shrinking.

So Nintendo 3DS will succeed but not the PSP2.

Rest is smart phones for casuals and even some hardcore gamers will only carry their phones, get short gaming fixes when they have free time, then game seriously at home.

So mobile gaming complements console/PC with simple, cheap, "good enough" game control little games.

If tablets take off and more touch-centric games are developed, maybe these mobile games start to encroach into gaming at home as well. Maybe people who play Pogo or similar social/casual games grab their tablet and sit back on the couch rather than sit up at a desk with a computer.

Will all these mobile games in the aggregate produce more revenues than console/PC games?

+1, I've found myself wanting more simpler, quick fix games when I'm on the go. I don't even carry my PSP around for "hardcore" gaming anymore, it's just stupid not to mention inconvenient to take both the PSP and my iPhone around. I just find playing games on a dedicated portable with a small screen for hours just doesn't make much sense anymore. It's actually become a solution looking for a problem in my case.

Also forgot to mention that the PSP is HUGE compared to my iPhone.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Hmm I don't think the dedicated handheld market is shrinking, more like the handheld gaming market in total is growing. Gaming on phones has been around for ages. Years ago you already had online capable phone games in Japan but the dedicated handheld market has only been growing there. So I don't think gaming on phones will be eating into handhelds that much. I see it more as a expention. Gaming isn't really high on the list when buying a smarthphone but because you already got the phone and games are only a couple of bucks it's very easy to buy one from time to time to pass some time. The people who do this probably arn't that interrested in spending atleast 200 euro's on a handheld + game anyway. Anybody who is really interrested in a bit more serious/longer gaming session on the game will buy a handheld imho. Touch screen only and a battery that is dead after a couple of hours is just not a really good solution for mobile gaming.

Also available time is probably a reason. I notice that getting older makes me change my habits. At first I would play quite a lot on my DS but now I never touch it anymore because I don't spend enough time on the road the play the relative long DS games so I use my phone more and at home I rather game on my pc or console. But for kids/teenager this is probably different. More time and a handheld is also a lot cheaper than a phone.

 

[RudeCurve]

I think even for teenagers and kids things are already starting to change with the introduction of better 3D capability on smartphones as well as pricing. In a few years the iPhones/iPods will be quite comparable in price to a dedicated portable, which at that point a XDS or PSPX doesn't seem that much more attractive and/or compelling.

 

[wco81]

There are a fair number of anecdotes about parents buying iPod Touches for kids under 10. There are educational and entertainment apps. for kids besides just games.

Presumably kids aren't complaining that they are getting a Touch instead of a DS.

A dedicated handheld will come out and have more power than smart phones. But a year or two after that, smart phones will have faster SOCs. So the iPod Touch which comes out a year or two after the PSP2 will have better silicone and of course, access to more software.

 

[Exophase]

And phones will never have traditional gaming controls and I guess a lot of people will continue to think this makes no difference to anyone.

 

[Lazy8s]

The deluxe, force feedback cabinets, controls, and immersion of arcades was never matched by home consoles, but that didn't stop the console's advantage in convenience from pushing it far ahead in popularity.

 

[Exophase]

The deluxe, force feedback cabinets, controls, and immersion of arcades was never matched by home consoles, but that didn't stop the console's advantage in convenience from pushing it far ahead in popularity.

Yes, this analogy has merit, although it isn't completely applicable because we're talking about competing devices in the same basic form factor and pricing schemes; you're talking about machines you had to go to another store to and pay per play. And I'd argue that the controls on consoles are much closer to arcade controls than touch controls are to console controls.

But I digress, the comments here are effectively pretending that a controls issue doesn't even exist. It isn't even being brought up as a factor.

 

[pcchen]

But I digress, the comments here are effectively pretending that a controls issue doesn't even exist. It isn't even being brought up as a factor.

But why is it an issue at all? Currently most console games are designed around current console controls, simply because, well, that's what's available right now. If you have different controls you should design around the new controls. I can't imagine how Angry Birds would be like to play if it has to be D-pad and buttons, for example.

 

[Sxotty]

It would play kind of like world of goo apparently

 

[JohnH]

But I digress, the comments here are effectively pretending that a controls issue doesn't even exist. It isn't even being brought up as a factor.

You mean control issues for the the typical genres found on consoles and PCs when ported to these platforms? It could be argued that perhaps it's time for something new instead.

 

[Exophase]

Hey, a lot of us actually like those style of games, we're talking about pretty different genre coverage here. Even Carmack himself has said that touch and motion controls aren't a full fit for all suitable gaming inputs. Just because you're trying new things doesn't mean throw out everything that works. That sounds more like a cop out to cater for a device that was never really designed with extensive gaming in mind and everything that came after in an attempt to mirror its success.

 

[I.S.T.]

Hey, a lot of us actually like those style of games, we're talking about pretty different genre coverage here. Even Carmack himself has said that touch and motion controls aren't a full fit for all suitable gaming inputs. Just because you're trying new things doesn't mean throw out everything that works. That sounds more like a cop out to cater for a device that was never really designed with extensive gaming in mind and everything that came after in an attempt to mirror its success.

I agree.

Some types of games just don't work well on an exclusively touch based input system. Sometimes, you just need buttons and a d-pad/analog stick.

Folks, be honest with me. Can you imagine playing a game in the style of Devil May Cry(not a port of the game itself, rather a similar game tailored to the strengths of the platform) on a touch based platform? Lack of buttons alone would make the game far too hard to play. Combine that with no good movement method(No analog stick after all)...

A recipe for disaster. Plain and simple.

This isn't to say that other genres can't be reworked to be compatible with touch based input systems. Just that some can't, and they sell.

 

[pcchen]

Some types of games just don't work well on an exclusively touch based input system. Sometimes, you just need buttons and a d-pad/analog stick.

There will always be games which "requires" a certain type of control to work well. Driving games need wheels, DDR games need DDR pads, RTS need keyboard+mouse, etc. These do not make some controls more necessary than others, especially for a portable device.

Imagine if portable game devices were developed with touch based input from the start, what you'll see should be a lot of games which work well with touch based controls and game developers would avoid game types which may not work well with touch based inputs. And people would say "I can't imagine how a portable game device with only D-pad and buttons work!" or something like that.

Also, iPhone does not have only touch based inputs. It also has accelerometers and gyros (for iPhone 4). There are games which use only these for control (Tilt to Live, Doodle Jump, etc.)

 

[JohnH]

I agree.

Some types of games just don't work well on an exclusively touch based input system. Sometimes, you just need buttons and a d-pad/analog stick.

Folks, be honest with me. Can you imagine playing a game in the style of Devil May Cry(not a port of the game itself, rather a similar game tailored to the strengths of the platform) on a touch based platform? Lack of buttons alone would make the game far too hard to play. Combine that with no good movement method(No analog stick after all)...

A recipe for disaster. Plain and simple.

This isn't to say that other genres can't be reworked to be compatible with touch based input systems. Just that some can't, and they sell.

That's a good example of the mistake that I think people are making. The developers need to stop trying to port existing and somewhat incompatible genres and start coming up with new ones. This is one of the things that I think makes this type of platform so interesting, it will, hopefully, force developers to start breaking the mold and come up with something genuinely new.

John.

 

[I.S.T.]

That's a good example of the mistake that I think people are making. The developers need to stop trying to port existing and somewhat incompatible genres and start coming up with new ones. This is one of the things that I think makes this type of platform so interesting, it will, hopefully, force developers to start breaking the mold and come up with something genuinely new.

John.

Honestly, I think the two "styles", if you will, can co-exist, which is something that the touch people here don't seem to get... Of course, I could be wrong about that.

 

[darkblu]

That's a good example of the mistake that I think people are making. The developers need to stop trying to port existing and somewhat incompatible genres and start coming up with new ones. This is one of the things that I think makes this type of platform so interesting, it will, hopefully, force developers to start breaking the mold and come up with something genuinely new.

I have one issue with smartphones as a full-fledged gaming platform, and it's entirely from a developer's POV - smartphones have abysmal life expectancy. Every effort to go high-tech/high production value is bound by that life expectancy. You can go iD's way - shoot for the lowest common (GPU) denominator (and even that's not entirely true), or you can try and do what Chair did with Infinity blade - gamble and hope for a very quick ROI. But you cannot go the established consoles/handhelds way - spend 2 years of developing a high-production value title, and then expect to have 2-3 years of time for collecting revenue.

 

[JohnH]

I have one issue with smartphones as a full-fledged gaming platform, and it's entirely from a developer's POV - smartphones have abysmal life expectancy. Every effort to go high-tech/high production value is bound by that life expectancy. You can go iD's way - shoot for the lowest common (GPU) denominator (and even that's not entirely true), or you can try and do what Chair did with Infinity blade - gamble and hope for a very quick ROI. But you cannot go the established consoles/handhelds way - spend 2 years of developing a high-production value title, and then expect to have 2-3 years of time for collecting revenue.

See where you coming from but I think with platforms like iPhone, and maybe to a lesser extent Android, forward compatibility isn't generally an issue even though the platform continues to evolve e.g. don't apps written for the first iPhone still run on iPhone4?

Personally I see the fast pace of evolution as another thing that encourages innovation.

John.