Its time for one of Davs world famous Hypothetical Scenario's

Discussion in 'Politics & Ethics of Technology' started by Davros, Jun 15, 2013.

?

What is your belief on the license situation?

  1. I own the card.

    90.0%
  2. I do not own the card.

    10.0%
  1. Davros

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    So you buy a graphics card (lets say a HD 7950) you've bought it, you own it, its yours.
    I dont think anyone disagrees with that statement.

    So I open a computer shop and you purchase a HD 7950.
    You get it home open the box and inside is a piece of paper with the following printed on it

    THIS PRODUCT IS LICENSED, NOT SOLD. BY INSTALLING, COPYING OR OTHERWISE USING THIS PRODUCT, YOU AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS LIMITED WARRANTY AND LICENSE
    AGREEMENT (THE "AGREEMENT") AND THE TERMS SET FORTH BELOW. THE "PRODUCT" INCLUDES ALL SOFTWARE INCLUDED WITH THIS AGREEMENT, THE ACCOMPANYING MANUAL(S), PACKAGING AND OTHER WRITTEN, FILES, ELECTRONIC OR ON-LINE MATERIALS OR DOCUMENTATION, AND ANY AND ALL COPIES OF SUCH SOFTWARE AND ITS MATERIALS. BY OPENING THE PRODUCT, INSTALLING, AND/OR USING THE PRODUCT AND ANY OTHER MATERIALS INCLUDED WITH THE PRODUCT, YOU HEREBY ACCEPT THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT WITH THE LICENSOR. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT, YOU ARE NOT PERMITTED TO INSTALL, COPY OR USE THE PRODUCT.


    So who beleives they own the card and who doesnt ?
     
  2. Babel-17

    Veteran Regular

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    I actually do own a HD 7950. I'm very happy with it.

    Having said that ..... ;)

    Lol, I've become aware that some of the functionality of it is highly dependent on timely releases of updates by AMD.

    So, in some instances, I use it at the pleasure of AMD.

    But that's been the case for all cards, and for as long as I know. I knew that going in, the principle of it. As long as the drivers on the CD that come with the kit enable what's advertised on the box, the sale is valid.

    Am I totally missing the point? I'm assuming we're getting into the limitations placed on software by publishers.

    My problem with games is that the software in the box, when looked at by an objective third party, is often sold in a broken state.

    Bioshock 2 comes to mind.

    Huh, I still haven't answered your question, sorry.

    I own it unless the restrictions were spelled out on the box. If I want to use the card to power a holodeck, or a custom OS, it's mine to do with.
     
    #2 Babel-17, Jun 15, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2013
  3. tongue_of_colicab

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    Well, even if such a thing would be legal, as long as they don't tell you that in the store when you "buy" it, I think you own it.

    If I understand what you are getting at, then yes. When you pay for something you own it, no matter if some company likes to think they actually licened it to you.
     
  4. BRiT

    BRiT (>• •)>⌐■-■ (⌐■-■)
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    This thread begs for a poll...
     
  5. Squilliam

    Squilliam Beyond3d isn't defined yet
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    Well the GPU itself is a paperweight unless you agree to terms written in software IIRC. I guess that way its more upfront.
     
  6. Silent_Buddha

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    There's actually a real world example of something like this. Leasing a car. :)

    There's also obviously differences between how a physical product that can degrade is handled and how a digital product that potentially never degrades is handled.

    10 years from now a physical product may not work anymore limiting its value. 10 years from now that digital copy of something still exactly the same as it currently is.

    Imagine if hot water heaters never degraded and never needed servicing. And on top of that you could quite easily give away hundreds of thousands of copies of that hot water heater without you or anyone else paying anything for those copies.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  7. almighty

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    I normally destroy any warranty I have with anything within the first 10 minutes of owning it anyway so I do what I like and if people don't like it then tough...

    World records are not broken with stock hardware that's under license....

    Although if they want the card back after its been run on DICE or LN2 then they're more then welcome :cool:
     
  8. McHuj

    Veteran Regular Subscriber

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    You own the card because you bought it. If you want to lease or "license" the use of the card that needs to be agreed to by an actual contract and before the transfer of goods and money.
     
  9. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
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    Fuck what the paper said: I bought it, I own it. :yep2:
     
  10. Davros

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    So that begs the question, why when its a game do you believe you don't own it
    I dont buy this idea that if you put something in a text file it somehow becomes fact
    Many games are sold to children, can children no enter into legally abiding agreements?

    Also (no expert here) but isnt there something called contract law where a contract can be annulled if its considered to be unfair cant imagine anyone reading an eula would consider it to be fair to the consumer.

    If the piece of paper had also included the following clause
    THE LICENSOR RESRVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT, IF YOU DONT AGREE TO THE CHANGES YOU MUST STOP USING THE PRODUCT

    And a month later I contact you and say ps: the conditions have changed you owe me $5
    are you liable ?
     
  11. Silenti

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    I actually kind of like this idea. I wonder how many of us could mail/ return their software (if in physical format) or hardware, either when the license is up or when we are done using it. Would make a fun kind of protest. I have a vague memory of this happening before with something. Costs the company a fair bit to deal with it. Kind of like when some company annoys you and requires some ridiculous little payment, you sent them a check for MORE than they asked for, and it cost them something like 20$ to cut you a check back, completely destroying their intent in the first place.

    Hey, we are just licensing it, guess that means the issuer is responsible for it when we are done with it.
     
  12. ToTTenTranz

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    AFAIK, lots of products (software or hardware) come with these disclaimers in order to avoid as much hassle as possible from customers.

    However, all products must abide to the country's legislation, which renders those statements practically useless, which is why most companies tend to back off whenever a customer is willing to file a formal complaint.


    Besides, a little paper inside the box that can only be seen after the purchase.. was never going to mean anything in legal terms.
     
  13. Davros

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    Then why is that seemingly not the case with a little text file on the cd that can only be seen after the purchase?
    I really wish some legal body or a consumer group would go after these eula's

    They certainly try and get out of that
    crysis 3 eula
     
  14. Daozang

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    I find the above statement very misleading.
    I always thought that in capitalism, something is worth exactly what you are willing to pay for it.

    Are you willing to pay the same amount for a ten year old software?
    Does Loom worth 60$ for you, in all its EGA graphics glory?

    To me it all sounds like a way to limit consumer rights, in order to maximize profit.
    And in the risk of sounding like a broken record, I'll say again, that products produced by practices such as these, belong to the bargain bin.

    In current capitalism the actual value of a product comes second to the projected marketing value of it.
    Seems like, companies like to pick their arguments the way it fits their purpose.
     
    #14 Daozang, Jun 28, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 28, 2013
  15. Alexko

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    Yeah, you own the card. Not the software and manuals that come with it, perhaps, but you own the card. That can't be what they're telling you not to copy!
     
  16. Davros

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    No it is saying you cant copy in reference to the card (i know i made it up ;) )
    If I would of left out the copying bit would it of made a difference ?
    and why do you differentiate between the card, the manuals and the drivers ?
     
  17. Zaphod

    Zaphod Remember
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    Well, the cards manuals drives (and BIOS) would be copyrighted. And I guess, as such, you could make an argument that they could/should be protected by the same laws and regulations that the entertainment/software industries rely on/advocate.

    Thus you would own the card, but for the good graces of the hardware vendor, it could well become a useless piece of electronics if you decide to sell it on and said materials are not licensed for the second owner.
     
  18. Davros

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    you can own copyrighted material, books movies ect
    I can sell you a dvd you dont have to be licensed to own it.
     
  19. Zaphod

    Zaphod Remember
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    Sure. I agree that should be so, and in most jurisdictions it is. But if we just accept that, what's the point of your thought experiment to begin with?

    No one seem to have challenged the right to sell your actual physical stuff, but even the most mundane things are getting computer controlled these days, so I believe the software licensing/copyright angle will (regrettably) become ever more relevant - even for physical products.

    Printer cartridges may have been one of the first types of products to step into this legal landscape some ways back.
     
  20. Davros

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    well first not everyone accepts that you own it
    and for those who believe they do, why does their opinion change when the product in question is software ?
     
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