Is PS4/XONE CPU a bottleneck?

deusex

Newcomer
The ps4 obviously has the 8 core AMD 1.6 ghz jaguar. we can overclock to 2.75 GHZ. the CPU is basically 2 mobile CPUs on one module. tablet processors. they're pretty weak if you compare it to the PS3 CPU. PS3 cpu can do 230 GFLOPS with the CPU. while PS4/XONE have like 100 GFLOPS. the X360 had 77 GFLOPS. but wouldn't have been a better if they went with an intel haswell. I mean i know they wanted a low power CPU. but there are some pretty good low power haswell CPUs. I don't think it would have cost significantly much if they went with a better amd or intel cpu. and it would have been better in the long run. the PS4 GPU is a GPGPU. which can be used as a CPU. shows you that they knew it was a bottleneck. i feel like a better CPU is a good investment. anything is better than two phone processors.


PS4 is obviously stronger that the xbox one. gpu can be used as a CPU. but i feel like a better CPU that would cost few dollars more would have been way better. sucker punch themselves said that the CPU is the biggest bottleneck in the System. its a powerful system. but why upgrade everything and downgrade the CPU. explains why killzone shadowfall struggles with the A.I. ai is more of a cpu task than a gpu one. i think if the ps4 had something like an intel i3. the PS4 cpu is more like a celeron with extra cores.
 
The PS4 CPU is barely 1/4 the processing power of a low end i5 processor. i find it unrealistic and funny that sony and microsoft went with these weak processors. unreasonable.
 

the PS4s GPU is being used as a CPU. if we had a better CPU. the GPU can be used fully for the graphics. as it is being used for A.i physics. and all the stuff the cpu should be doing. oh yeah the games only can use 6 phone cores.
 
The PS4 CPU is barely 1/4 the processing power of a low end i5 processor. i find it unrealistic and funny that sony and microsoft went with these weak processors. unreasonable.

They both had a power & heat budget. I think they came out pretty good with the choice they made.

The CPU's haven't been shown to be a bottleneck so far.
 
the PS4s GPU is being used as a CPU. if we had a better CPU. the GPU can be used fully for the graphics. as it is being used for A.i physics. and all the stuff the cpu should be doing. oh yeah the games only can use 6 phone cores.

Yeah you're just talking to be talking. when have you seen GPU processing taken away from a PS4 game to be giving to the CPU?
 
as far as I know. ps4's gpu is a gpgpu. general processing gpu. which can be used as a cpu. and it has been used for killzone shadowfall a.i
 
as far as I know. ps4's gpu is a gpgpu. general processing gpu. which can be used as a cpu. and it has been used for killzone shadowfall a.i

But show me where the GPU processing was taken away from graphics to make up for the weak CPU.
Of course it would be better to have a powerful CPU & powerful GPU but so far the CPU seems to be perfectly balanced for the consoles.


I'm sure it will have problems in the long run but so far I'm not seeing any games that pushed the CPU to the limit.
 
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Oh dear. Not this. If you search the forum there is plenty of information on the subject. You can't compare Cell or XCPU to what's in the PS4/X1. Completely different architectures. Also, there are many things the jaguar is faster at. Is it a bottleneck? Maybe, in some cases it could be... but developers will optimize and do the best with what they've got.
 
the PS4s GPU is being used as a CPU. if we had a better CPU. the GPU can be used fully for the graphics. as it is being used for A.i physics. and all the stuff the cpu should be doing. oh yeah the games only can use 6 phone cores.

When the ff gfx pipeline is running at full tilt but nearly no ALU is being used what would you do ? general purpose GPU jobs fit well into these spaces.
 
I'm not worried about it yet. We've moved so much off of CPU that there's not that much left. For 2016-2018 titles, it could get a little tighter.

But at the same time, it depends on your game. I know of launch titles that had big problems with CPU.
 
Launch titles are always terribly optimized, and it's always been like that. Compare R-Type II for SNES and R-Type Third Lightning, which came several years into the console's lifespan. They're as night and day.
 
I would hope Sony and MS can both remove so of the strain from the OS on the cpu. Right now I believe both are keeping 2 cores in reserve. MS has their core's clocked at 1.75ghz and sony at 1.6ghz .

Either one of them being able to get a core back while the other still has it dedicated can be a big deal later on in the generation.

But this is just another reason why I hope this is a short generation. The new Intel Core M (broadwell) is 4.5watt TDP 2 core /4 thread cpu at 1.1ghz and a turbo of 2.6ghz and it includes a hd 5300 at 100/850/MHz .

Its a die of 82mm2 but if you look at the die shot

http://images.anandtech.com/doci/8475/2 - Die.png

If you removed the gpu you'd be able quite a lot of those cores on that chip in the 82mm2 space.



Both Sony and MS screwed themselves by using 32nm/28nm instead of waiting although that was a factor of amd's situation .

Bulldozer is just to much of a power hog and AMD has basicly let it die at this point. So none of them had much choice on what cpu to use.
 
I would hope Sony and MS can both remove so of the strain from the OS on the cpu. Right now I believe both are keeping 2 cores in reserve. MS has their core's clocked at 1.75ghz and sony at 1.6ghz .

Either one of them being able to get a core back while the other still has it dedicated can be a big deal later on in the generation.

But this is just another reason why I hope this is a short generation. The new Intel Core M (broadwell) is 4.5watt TDP 2 core /4 thread cpu at 1.1ghz and a turbo of 2.6ghz and it includes a hd 5300 at 100/850/MHz .

Its a die of 82mm2 but if you look at the die shot

http://images.anandtech.com/doci/8475/2 - Die.png

If you removed the gpu you'd be able quite a lot of those cores on that chip in the 82mm2 space.



Both Sony and MS screwed themselves by using 32nm/28nm instead of waiting although that was a factor of amd's situation .

Bulldozer is just to much of a power hog and AMD has basicly let it die at this point. So none of them had much choice on what cpu to use.

Would you be overly concerned about your CPU if your head was in the Clouds?
 
Sry to correct this, but the ps4 cpu cannot be overclocked. Jagur is barely capeable of reaching 2.2 ghz. In paper xbox one has the faster cpu, but the directx api has more overhead so it is slower right now
 
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Correct mme if I'm wrong, but developers so far are still doing vast majority of phyiscs cpu side not wanting to sacrifice image quality for gpu based physics.
8 year old PS3 cell with its huge cpu bandwidth and no contention issues is probably more ideal for heavy cpu-side physics than PS4.

The physics in Motorstorm hold up very well to next gen titles so far.
 
How would you guys even go about identifying CPU bottlenecks? The games are going to look better than PS360. There's certainly no excuse for them not to run games great too. The machines are more capable, period. Going too far with effects and compromising frame rate can happen on any hardware.
 
New consoles dont seem to have difficulties pushing thousands of AI in AC Unity while retaining a great graphics quality, i am not worried.
 
New consoles dont seem to have difficulties pushing thousands of AI in AC Unity while retaining a great graphics quality, i am not worried.

Not exactly sophisticated AI tho and I bet they faked a lot if it with mass crowd behaviour. That's what we do when wanting to simulate a lot of people together.

Maybe it'll be better in Unity. The things that disappoints me in open world games is the passivity of the pedestrians. It's like walking through a herd of cows.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner.
 
Not exactly sophisticated AI tho and I bet they faked a lot if it with mass crowd behaviour. That's what we do when wanting to simulate a lot of people together.

Maybe it'll be better in Unity. The things that disappoints me in open world games is the passivity of the pedestrians. It's like walking through a herd of cows.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner.

Perhaps in Assassin's Creed Open World games...

GTA pedestrians are alot more realistic, imho. And often exhibit alot more interesting behaviour.

Frankly though, It doesn't much bother me much. I'm always too busy having fun with the rest of the games' mechanics to notice what the pedestrians are doing. They're simply props to me.
 
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