Internet Explorer doesn't support proper CSS 2.0

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by K.I.L.E.R, Jun 21, 2003.

  1. K.I.L.E.R

    K.I.L.E.R Retarded moron
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    The 'position' tag in a CSS doesn't work as it should.

    Now my website is only displaying properly to people who use Mozilla based browser and possibly Netscape. Great going M$. :x

    I never thought I would see the day the open source Gecko engine will surpass the IE engine in terms of compatibility. :roll:

    Now I can see why M$ hate open source. Their products are inferior compared to many open source products.

    I have to use a hack to get it working in IE.

    http://devnull.tagsoup.com/fixed/

    :roll:
     
  2. Heathen

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    Pretty sure IE supports fixed on the Mac, still doesn't explain the failure to support it on the PC version.

    As you say, stupid and annoying although there are some hacks to get round it.
     
  3. K.I.L.E.R

    K.I.L.E.R Retarded moron
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    The fact that I need hacks to get around it is just beyond stupid. I was kicking myself for my mistakes but now I see that there are things worse than mistakes.

    Like M$. :roll:

    I thought IE was fully "compatible" with CSS 2.0? I can't believe I actually thought that was true... until today.

    Is there anywhere I can complain about this and get them to release a patch?
     
  4. DemoCoder

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    Nobody is completely CSS2.0 compliant, not even Mozilla. Your safest bet is to stick with CSS1.0, but even then, don't assume interoperability. Both CSS1.0 and CSS2.0 are illspecified which causes implementors to have vastly different behavior, and 3.0 is being worked on to fix some of the problems. (I used to be a memory of the CSS working group at the W3C)

    Microsoft won't support future browser standards that come out of the W3C. Most of XHTML and CSS is now being worked on by Netscape and Opera. Microsoft's 90% marketshare in browsers ensures that they don't need to add any new features.
     
  5. K.I.L.E.R

    K.I.L.E.R Retarded moron
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    Oh great, now I have to either implement the "hack" (which I won't anyway) or find another alternative. *cough* frames *cough*. I don't want to do that either.

    Has anyone got any ideas?

    Damn that freakin' monopoly. :x
     
  6. Dave H

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    IE's rendering engine has changed very little since IE5, and it diverges from the CSS specs in numerous ways. (As DemoCoder says, nothing yet supports all of CSS 2.0, but at least what Mozilla and Opera support they mostly get "right," at least to within the ambiguities of the spec; IE "supports" many key attributes but renders them totally contrary to the spec.)

    But, as others have said, there are ways around it, and they only cost a bit of your time to code, a bit of extra bandwidth to serve longer stylesheets, and a bit of pragmatism to realize that coding to the spec and pretending it will work doesn't cut it if you actually want people to see your site as you intend it.

    I'm not sure exactly what bug you're bumping up against, but do a search for "IE box model hack" and you'll probably get the solution you need.
     
  7. K.I.L.E.R

    K.I.L.E.R Retarded moron
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    Thanks Dave.

    I just don't like how corporations like to monopolise on things like popular Internet Browsers and don't follow with W3C standards. All it does in the end is force more work on developers. :(

    Dave, I don't think there is a problem with my boxes as they are made up of tables. I am trying to find how to keep that contents table on the page at all times like a frame would. FireBird does it fine but IE doesn't.

    Everything else works fine under IE.

    BTW: Are my colours eye straining?
     
  8. Dave H

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    The worst part is that MS has recently announced that a) they will not be offering any new standalone versions of IE, and b) the next version won't come until Longhorn.

    That means not only are we stuck with IE's current level of (non)compliance until 2005, but even then it seems there won't be any (easy) way for a developer to switch between different versions during compatability testing, unless they buy and install every different Windows version! (Not that it's easy to do now: you can't have more than one IE version in any copy of the OS, so it's pretty difficult to reasonably do version testing unless you use VMWare or equivalent.)

    [edit: Among other things, this also means that, best case, it will be until ~2008 (Longhorn launch + 3 years for an OS upgrade cycle) before a majority of the public uses a browser that supports any of the useful-looking stuff coming out of CSS3. :(]

    The sad thing is how utterly transparent it all is. Back when the browser war was worth fighting, IE was way ahead of Netscape in supporting standards. (You might think IE 6 has problems with CSS, but Netscape 4 will *CRASH* when encountering certain (valid) CSS!) But once it became obvious MS had won (around the time of IE 5), they stopped doing any more work on standards compliance, because as long as it has 95% of the market, IE is "the standard".
     
  9. K.I.L.E.R

    K.I.L.E.R Retarded moron
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    I wander if there is a way to get 50% of people at least to see the light?

    http://members.optusnet.com.au/ksaho/

    It works nicely?
    Colors good?
    What can I a add/subtract?

    After hours of work just to get a simple hack going is pretty silly. Eventually I stopped and thought about what I was doing and a few minutes later I am done.
     
  10. Heathen

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    Well it all seems to work fine, although the colours are somewhat bold for my tatses.
     
  11. K.I.L.E.R

    K.I.L.E.R Retarded moron
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    The contents bar always satys in view when you scroll?

    Yes, I am usually strange when it comes to picking colours. I usually go for the ones I like.
     
  12. Heathen

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    Most definitely it stays in view.

    Could have sworn IE6 didn't support 'fixed'. May have to play a bit and delete all those hacks I've programmed into my webpages, or did you do something sneaky?

    Well they're certainly bold if nothing else, but after a Vodka and Redbull night and the wee ones waking me up early anything brighter than VERY dull pastel is bright for me. :wink:
     
  13. K.I.L.E.R

    K.I.L.E.R Retarded moron
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    I'll show ya.

    Stylesheet
    Code:
    body
      {
      margin: 0;
      padding: 0 0 0 <length>;
    	background-color:	003399;
    	overflow-y: hidden;
    	color:red;
      }
    div.fixed
      {
      position: absolute;
      top: 0;
      left: 0;
      width: <length>;
      height:100%;
      }
    @media screen
      {
      body>div.fixed
        {
        position: fixed;
        }
    }
    div.content
      {
      height: 100%;
      overflow: auto;
      }
    
    HTML doc
    Code:
    <div class="content">
    contents goes here
    </div>
    
    <div class="fixed">
    fixed table or something that stays on screen
    </div>
    
     
  14. Xmas

    Xmas Porous
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    Opera 7.11 doesn't like the page at all. I have to switch to "user mode" to even see the logo and the last news bit on the page. The green Contents bar extends over the whole width of the screen, and the news text scrolls above it, while the logo stays below.
    IE6 is fine, but I don't like the colors.
     
  15. K.I.L.E.R

    K.I.L.E.R Retarded moron
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    It's fixed. :)
    Need to use 2 seperate stylesheets and had to have every page detect (using JScript) if the browser is a Gecko based one or an IE6 based one.

    Try it now, it should work properly.
     
  16. Crusher

    Crusher Aptitudinal Constituent
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    So, exactly what are you doing with this page that couldn't be done exactly the same with frames, in less time and with more compatability? Everywhere I go I hear people saying they don't want to use frames, and then they implement something elaborate that looks exactly like frames in the end anyway...
     
  17. K.I.L.E.R

    K.I.L.E.R Retarded moron
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    Some browsers have trouble bookmarking a site with frames.
    Other than that, I prefer a challenge. :)
     
  18. Dave H

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    One nitpicky issue:

    On Gecko (or at least Moz. 1.4), once you start to scroll down the green background to the header bleeds left a bit, out to above the n in Contents.

    Plus the Kruno's Pulpit text there has some funny artifacts, perhaps because you're magnifying a bit (displaying at 875 pixels an 800 pixel jpeg).

    and I don't like the colors :wink:
     
  19. K.I.L.E.R

    K.I.L.E.R Retarded moron
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    LOL :lol:

    I will try to fix those little quirks up and set the jpeg back to normal size. :)
    Thanks guys.
     
  20. Althornin

    Althornin Senior Lurker
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    i must say, i dont know what you are talking about here.
    i get no green background - its blue...
    on both Moz 1.4rc2 and IE
     
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