Intel's smartphone platforms

Discussion in 'Mobile Devices and SoCs' started by tangey, Sep 18, 2012.

  1. liolio

    liolio Aquoiboniste
    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2005
    Messages:
    5,723
    Likes Received:
    193
    Location:
    Stateless
  2. french toast

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,667
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Leicestershire - England
  3. liolio

    liolio Aquoiboniste
    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2005
    Messages:
    5,723
    Likes Received:
    193
    Location:
    Stateless
    The thing looks like a beast, let see how it fares wrt GPU power.
    As I expected they are to take a significant lead on the competition, they should also get to 14nm before the others, there is going to be some sport :)
     
  4. Jubei

    Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    484
    Likes Received:
    84
    Unfortunately for Intel, atleast in the smartphone market, its not so much about performance but about price. And as long as Android and iOS are the market leaders, Intel will be the ugly duckling nobody wants
     
  5. liolio

    liolio Aquoiboniste
    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2005
    Messages:
    5,723
    Likes Received:
    193
    Location:
    Stateless
    What prevent Intel to price their chip competitively?
    Atom runs Android I don't get your point.
     
  6. liolio

    liolio Aquoiboniste
    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2005
    Messages:
    5,723
    Likes Received:
    193
    Location:
    Stateless
    #186 liolio, May 7, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2013
  7. Wynix

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,052
    Likes Received:
    57
    I found this quite interesting:

    If true this will be a very good start to their first real attempt at a phone/tablet chip.
     
  8. Gubbi

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Messages:
    3,509
    Likes Received:
    839
    Holy crap, they went OOOe with Silvermont !!

    That'll be the end of crappy Atom performance then.

    Cheers
     
  9. Laurent06

    Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2007
    Messages:
    712
    Likes Received:
    33
    They have had multiple real first attempts at the mobile market since the Atom launch in 2008 :lol:

    Regarding the GPU, Anand says this:
    Now if we look at some HD4k (in Surface Pro) vs others benchmarks here and here that doesn't look very promising, especially for a chip that is 6 months away. As usual we'll have to wait for devices to draw any conclusion.
     
  10. Ailuros

    Ailuros Epsilon plus three
    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    9,416
    Likes Received:
    178
    Location:
    Chania
    You're just mean :razz: :lol:

    You have the Vivo tab smart in that graph to represent Clovertrail; according to Intel itself it'll be 2-3x times faster than its predecessor (or was that a singled out claim for the CPU only?). If that's the case you don't need to divide the HD4000 score by 4x and then guess for a lower GPU frequency; either way chances are high that the GPU will not be able to surpass the iPad4 GPU in performance. Bets are still open if they're even going to reach the latter or not, but then again who cares.
     
  11. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    9,780
    Likes Received:
    4,431
    Anything with Silvermont will be coming early 2014. That's a year after ipad 4.

    By then, it won't be great for Android and it'll definitely be terrible for windows gaming.
     
  12. Jubei

    Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    484
    Likes Received:
    84
    competitively to whom?

    can Intel sell chips cheaper to Samsung than the margins they currently have by vertically integrating?

    Can Intel sell chips cheaper to Apple than the margins they currently have by designing their own chips? That is excluding the massive headache of losing legacy software and losing flexibility in favour of Intel roadmaps

    Can Intel sell chips cheaper than the chinese vendors?

    That leaves Qualcomm. And their advantage in mobile has never been about the performance of their chips but their time to market and basebands.

    Outside of the techworld, nobody cares if their phone has Intel chip or Tegra chip. Or if its 64% faster or slower. As long as its fast enough it will be fine. So why would an OEM buy Intel when their customers do not care?

    And while Android can run X86, all the software is optimized for ARM, some native apps still have trouble with X86 processors. Its a massive uphill battle they are facing and their problems is not about their competitors having better performance. Unless Microsoft makes some kind of amazing X86 Windows Phone 9, i dont see anything changing in smartphones.
     
  13. liolio

    liolio Aquoiboniste
    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2005
    Messages:
    5,723
    Likes Received:
    193
    Location:
    Stateless
    No, but Samsung lead is not set in stone either.
    I would be more opened on Apple, they are loosing market share it seems, if Intel provide them with a significant competitive advantage, they could make the jump. At this point unlikely but you never know.
    No and I don't think that any bog company is interesting in doing so, I would think margins are way too low.
    Intel is catching up, and it is not only about baseband, their overall offering is competitive /among the best.
    That is pushing, all of sudden because Intel is to take the lead performance are all of the sudden irrelevant? They are not most people do not read detailed review but they hear (word to mouth) about which phone is 'best', etc. Related to silicon performance is battery life and that is something people cares about.
    Pretty much it is the job of the phone manufacturers, /their marketing team, to present their phone as the best without hammering your average user with technical data he does not get.
    Well you made your point clearer, actually I agree with quite some things you stated, I don't expect Intel to have an easy ride (I think I posted something going in hat direction in the other Silvermont thread), technical merit goes only that far, Intel needs great partnership with company that can compete with the best I'm not sure that at this point companies like HTC or Nokia can even with what could be "the best phone" compete with the brand strength of Sansumg.
    Though it is not like INtel needs to have X86 in every smartphone or tablets, they just need to capture a decent share of the market too keep its fab busy neither they need the first devices powered by their new chip to become instantly king of the hill. Though people will have interest in the product powered by the tech if it indeed the best, most powerful available solution, then it is herding behavior.

    Intel has to build its brand name in that realm, it is not impossible, uphill batlle? Yes but after years of X86 sucks, etc they seems to have chip nobody should be able to match till better process are available (and at which time Intel should jump to a new process too). It is not about killing ARM anyway, INtel just need the extra volume (and nice margins if they offer the "best money can buy) to maintain its volume and process advantage.
    In the geek world they are a lot of people that have for years de facto against Intel, their POV is irrelevant once products hit the streets along with reviews I would be surprised if those that set trends don't jump on the most powerful phone there is, especially if the competition has nothing coming that can compete. Intel needs to spend Dollars in marketing and help if needed the partners that chose their chip.
     
  14. zed

    zed
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,400
    Likes Received:
    606
    Some goss
    I bumped into someone highup from intel in penang the other day in the pub

    the short of it is he said
    Theyre close to ARM in performance
    but and I quote
    "cant fucking compete on price"

    but they are improving
     
  15. liolio

    liolio Aquoiboniste
    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2005
    Messages:
    5,723
    Likes Received:
    193
    Location:
    Stateless
    Well I'm not sure why Intel would want to compete on price at least on the low end, the nice thing if they manage to have the best chip is that they can go for the high end first.
    Does Qualcomm has an advantage when it comes to price vs Intel? No, the same applies for Nvidia. Even Apple doesn't have an intrinsic advantage, more they have volume (though going slowly down). Samsung has an advantage though (for their in house phone not when it come to selling Exynos to other phones/tablets manufacturers).
    I'm not sure about why a high up would state anything about competing on "price", it is such a vague statement and I don't think any of the big actors in that realm want to compete on price with say any Chinese manufacturers for example.
    Then if the guy think of fighting ARM outside of phones and tablets, they are indeed never to compete. Though as a side note D.Kanter if I remember his last article right, think that Intel Silvermont could be the best low power chip around even normalized by Intel process advantage (a bit free as a statement we will never find out but he is pretty good at what he does so I could believe him). That is quiet something when you think that Silvermont is real close to (if I read properly) to plain CISC X86 CPU :!:
     
    #195 liolio, May 7, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2013
  16. nAo

    nAo Nutella Nutellae
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    4,325
    Likes Received:
    93
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Sure, and the other day I happened to be visiting an old friend back in Cambridge and I bumped into some big guy from ARM that told me they are doomed :roll:
     
  17. zed

    zed
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,400
    Likes Received:
    606
    I think one of us may be lying.

    I don't give a monkeys about Intel or arm.
    Just saying what I heard. Feel free to ignore.

    Wrt Intel & price. Yes going great only what revenue down 17% PC sales are booming etc. To say price is not important is hmmmmmm
     
  18. nAo

    nAo Nutella Nutellae
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    4,325
    Likes Received:
    93
    Location:
    San Francisco
    I haven't said a thing about pricing. On the other hand you want us to believe a story you supposedly heard from a random guy at a bar.
    What's next? Someone told you we haven't actually been on the moon? Nevermind..
     
  19. Wynix

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,052
    Likes Received:
    57
    What your saying is understandable, but what he is saying is basically what is already known.

    ARM = cheap to make.
    Intel = playing catchup and doesn't like the low margins associated with the ARM chips.

    Intel will need to come ahead in both performance and power consumption by a decent margin if they want people to even think about paying what they are asking.
     
  20. willardjuice

    willardjuice super willyjuice
    Moderator Veteran Alpha Subscriber

    Joined:
    May 14, 2005
    Messages:
    1,372
    Likes Received:
    239
    Location:
    NY
    Could you elaborate on what price intel is asking (or price relative to ARM)? That's a pretty strong statement without much evidence.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...