Intel Stifling 3D graphics

Discussion in 'Graphics and Semiconductor Industry' started by metallinikil, Jun 22, 2003.

  1. metallinikil

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    Hi

    After seeing the vast amount of computers shipping with intel integrated graphics it iratates me to see them as such low performers. I mean come on make a low end directx 8 part!!! In my eyes its one of the biggest scams having a super high performance CPU for marketing and a piece of shit graphics chipset. The sad thing is many consumers fall prey to this EVERY day. I say intel just leaves the integrated graphics market.

    Nik
     
  2. gkar1

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    OK, make them. As long as there are mainstream users oblivious to everything but the number slapped to the speed of their CPU in their computers, intel will continue to sell those crappy integrated cores because they make excellent financial sense.
     
  3. Dave H

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    And it's not only that: many users, mainstream and (especially) corporate, have no need for 3d performance. DX6-level integrated chipsets are an excellent solution for the majority of PC users. Yes, they leech memory bandwidth and footprint from the system, but that problem wouldn't be improved by moving to a more capable (e.g. DX8) integrated core, and for 2d use it's much cheaper and more elegant than requiring a discrete video card.

    (This isn't to say that many consumers aren't fooled into making poor decisions for their needs by overreliance on CPU MHz.)

    Longhorn may muss things up a bit, though...
     
  4. Nagorak

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    If people don't know wtf they are buying then they get what they deserve. It's like buying a car. A lot of people walk in without a clue about the cars sold their or what they want, and they just let the salesman take advantage of them. You can't really feel sorry for them, though (but god, if you know what you're doing when you go into a car dealership, you'll find the salesmen are so clueless.)
     
  5. Unit01

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    I think it's mostly the cost the charge for those Pc's that is bad. They just as much as a the same config but with a diff graphics card. And that's the sucky part. I do think intel will jump on the integrated DX9 bandwagon soon though. There's alot of money there that they want for themselves
     
  6. martrox

    martrox Old Fart
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  7. AzBat

    AzBat Agent of the Bat
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    Kinda timely post eh?

    Thought I would comment that my ol' boss Jon Peddie put out a press release today on this very topic. It coincides with the ATI announcement. What's interesting about the PR is that it doesn't try to sell any of his products or services. Though he does offer a white paper about a proposed classification and the difference between IGCs and IGPs. Anyway, Jon very rarely does this. In fact, I suspect it's been many, many years since he has done this. Evidently he feels passionate enough about protecting buyers that he felt it was necessary to evangelize the need for a new classification for entry level gaming. The press release is linked below.

    http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030623/235377_1.html

    I understand what he's getting at and in the end it sounds like a great move to me. However, I seriously doubt that ATI will be the last to release IGPs. In the near term this might be enough to at least get Intel on the ball with their own integrated graphics.

    Tommy McClain
     
  8. RussSchultz

    RussSchultz Professional Malcontent
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    I don't buy the 'coincidence' part.

    But, of course, I have heard Peddie mentioned specifically as an 'analyst for hire' in a discussion or two so I might be a little pre-disposed to that conclusion. (In other words, his passion comes from being paid to look into a particular topic).

    But, I suspect thats no different than any other analyst.
     
  9. AzBat

    AzBat Agent of the Bat
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    You misread me Russ. I said the original poster's message was timely, not the press release. I know full well that Jon timed his press release with ATI's. There's no disputing that.

    Yes, he's paid to do consulting work. That's part of his retainer program. No big secret to the graphics industry. He's done it for many, many years and has been hired by practically everybody in the business. Evidently you're the only one that has first heard of this. Anyway, I don't think his passion comes from getting paid. I known him for 7 years and can tell you he has a passion that is all his own. Give him a call or send him an email and have a chat with him and find out for yourself. I suspect he would at least send you the white paper if you asked nicely. ;)

    BTW, he does visit this site from time to time too. ;)

    Tommy McClain
     
  10. RussSchultz

    RussSchultz Professional Malcontent
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    I'm only relating info that I was said in conversations about analysts and/or op-ed peices in technical magazines (like EETimes). His name, specifically, came up.

    But, as I suggested, I believe there's a somewhat symbiotic relationship between analysts and what they're analysing. He's no different.
     
  11. AzBat

    AzBat Agent of the Bat
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    I suggest you ask and find out for yourself. No way of knowing for sure unless you do. That's better than relying on 3rd party knowledge, wouldn't you agree?

    I don't disagree with that, but to me that's totally different than saying he got paid for his passion.

    Again, do yourself a favor and find out for yourself. Then come back and tell me what you find out. If you don't get a response, then tell him I sent you.

    Tommy McClain
     
  12. RussSchultz

    RussSchultz Professional Malcontent
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    I don't doubt he's "passionate" about the industry (he does it for a living).

    I do doubt whether that same passion was the impetus behind this press release.
     
  13. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
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    Russ - whats your point here? Does it make his white paper any less valid?
     
  14. RussSchultz

    RussSchultz Professional Malcontent
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    No, it seems like a sane conclusion.

    It would have been just as sane 6 months ago, or 6 months from now.

    I'm just not terribly excited about analysts and pundits, particularly ones that get paid by the company they're analysing.
     
  15. indio

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    I have the same issues. I'm very sceptical of comments or analysis when there is a vested interest from the source. It doesn't make the person's conclusions wrong , just suspect.
     
  16. Joe DeFuria

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    Indeed, it's very sane, and I hope the industry picks up with it. They did a similar thing with the "MultiMedia PC" specs / guidelines back in the day when CD-ROMs were starting to gain marketshare. That was a good thing.

    Possibly, though the advent of pixel shading hardware in the integrated chipsets is most logical time to introduce the idea, no?

    Integrated = entry level. Peddie is talking about entry level "entertainment PCs." Basically, ATI's DX8 IGP is what is making "entry level / integrated chipset" and "gaming" possible to use in the same sentence without keeling over in laughter.

    Understandable, but I'm so much less excited when the company itself does the analyzing. For example, a certain company claiming that their chips will be optimized for....and the same certain company claiming that certain benchmark tools are not applicable.

    Thnk nVidia will risk paying Peddie to do an "analysis" of legitimate benchmarking practices? ;)
     
  17. RussSchultz

    RussSchultz Professional Malcontent
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    I don't know, but part of the engagement process is finding out if the analyst will find the information you want before you pay him.

    To some degree yes, to some degree no. The nForce integrated video is very capable of being an entry level integrated chipset. It plays quake3 and UT2k3 reasonably well--for an integrated chipset. It will probably outperform the new ATI part.
     
  18. Joe DeFuria

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    Right...

    So either nVidia hasn't even bothered to ASK a 3rd party analyst, assuming it would be fruitless....are nVidia did ask, didn't get what they wanted, so cut off the agreement. :p

    At that point, nVidia went a tier or 100 lower than a respected industry analyst for their PR outlet: Kyle. ;) Much cheaper, but of course much less credible. The best they could do though.

    I'll reserve any performance for actual reviews. But it certainly won't play DX8 games or use DX8 effects (which are beginning to be more evident in new games) at all. That's Peddie's major point.

    This classification should of course be a moving target. "EEPC 2003, then EEPC 2004, etc.) At some point, DX9 should be required for minimal EEPC requirements...
     
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