Impressive Athlon 64 benchmarks
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I certainly hope the next quarter is more exciting than the last half year.
I don't think I can maintain that much interest in another round of questionable PR numbers and sedated clock ramping. Some real definitive information wouldn't hurt all that much either, not some furtive benchmarking.
Not to say that what's been shown isn't somewhat intriguing, but things seem too nebulous to get myself excited.
I don't think I can maintain that much interest in another round of questionable PR numbers and sedated clock ramping. Some real definitive information wouldn't hurt all that much either, not some furtive benchmarking.
Not to say that what's been shown isn't somewhat intriguing, but things seem too nebulous to get myself excited.
It'd be nice to see an actually released A64 on an actually released motherboard on actually released software.
There are just too many unknowns, like if there are some unforseen problems with memory compatibility, buggy chipsets, and driver support. If the A64 release is as troubled as the Athlon release was, then things won't be good.
Hopefully, all the good info is just waiting for the NDA to expire, and hardware and software providers will have everything ready to go..
There are just too many unknowns, like if there are some unforseen problems with memory compatibility, buggy chipsets, and driver support. If the A64 release is as troubled as the Athlon release was, then things won't be good.
Hopefully, all the good info is just waiting for the NDA to expire, and hardware and software providers will have everything ready to go..
You might want to steer clear of the current Nforce3 boards. Apparently their hypertransport bus is running 200 Mhz slower than Via's. It seems to have a small but measurable performance penalty.
thanks but i am not gonna have the funds to spend on that any time soon :/ really im happy with my axp 1700+@2600+ it dose the job
oh and i would prefer an sis based solution
currnely im running and ecs l7s7a2 mobo with an athlon xp trbed 1700+@2600+(2088mhz) 1gb pc2100ram @2700 (12.5x166)
air cooled
the slowest thing in here is this POS gf2 gts but in a week or so i should have my gfx card to replace it
oh and i would prefer an sis based solution
currnely im running and ecs l7s7a2 mobo with an athlon xp trbed 1700+@2600+(2088mhz) 1gb pc2100ram @2700 (12.5x166)
air cooled
the slowest thing in here is this POS gf2 gts but in a week or so i should have my gfx card to replace it
I'm avoiding AMD like plague. Bought a XP 1800+ as an "early adopter", it burned to a crisp when I started my PC for the first time (got it replaced by a working one, which I now have to underclock to get it running in a stable fashion, and that's with good cooling).
There is a definitive reason why companies are not buying AMD : their hardware is unreliable, and the various chipsets flat-out suck. Yes, I know, "enthusiasts" love AMD, but IMHO it has a lot more to do with emotions and people wanting the "rebel attitude" of paying the "underdog" (that and the bias of various sites) than it has to do with a performance-stability/price ratio. Most self-proclaimed enthusiasts overclock like mad, and will say you with a straight face that their PC is "rock-stable since it only reboots 3 times a day, and that's probably because of M$ anyway".
There is a definitive reason why companies are not buying AMD : their hardware is unreliable, and the various chipsets flat-out suck. Yes, I know, "enthusiasts" love AMD, but IMHO it has a lot more to do with emotions and people wanting the "rebel attitude" of paying the "underdog" (that and the bias of various sites) than it has to do with a performance-stability/price ratio. Most self-proclaimed enthusiasts overclock like mad, and will say you with a straight face that their PC is "rock-stable since it only reboots 3 times a day, and that's probably because of M$ anyway".
corwin its not ur chip thes the problem i would bet its probbly the motherboard
give us specs for the parts in the box like motherboard ram cooling
i have yet to see an amd chip that was the problem its eather that the persions using a motherboard that sux or they are using ram that dosnt like there setup
i your case i would BET its a motherboard issue
if its via then im sorry i have been avoiding there products like the pleuge for some time now 99% of the systems i see with major problems are via based
if its an nforce board then u may have a bad bios revision or some other problem along those lines
my buddys nforce2 mobo wouldnt work properly unless u dissabled the l2 cache at first i was thinking maby he had a bad chip but after trying his cpu in my box for 2 days i knew it wasnt the chip checked with gigabyte and it was a knowen issue with that board flashed the bios and it works ok
noware neer as good as my sis chipset based ecs board though
ok back on what i was asking
1. motherboiard brand and model and what chipset it has
2. ram type and speed
3. cpu voltage
4. cooler u have on the chip
5. are u using thermal paist
gime that and i bet i can help ya figuar out why ur having problems
if you dont i will assume you are more intrested in blaming amd for your bad choices in parts then fixing the problem(sorry if this isnt the case but i see alot of people that blame the cpu for the board//ram they couple it with)
and if its an xp chip then its not an early athlon the early ones would have been athlon clasic or to some tbird chips
if u have and older xp its a palamion based chip and yes they produce heat
if u fryed it u probbly didnt put the hsf on properly or u didnt use goop(my term for thermal paist)
give us specs for the parts in the box like motherboard ram cooling
i have yet to see an amd chip that was the problem its eather that the persions using a motherboard that sux or they are using ram that dosnt like there setup
i your case i would BET its a motherboard issue
if its via then im sorry i have been avoiding there products like the pleuge for some time now 99% of the systems i see with major problems are via based
if its an nforce board then u may have a bad bios revision or some other problem along those lines
my buddys nforce2 mobo wouldnt work properly unless u dissabled the l2 cache at first i was thinking maby he had a bad chip but after trying his cpu in my box for 2 days i knew it wasnt the chip checked with gigabyte and it was a knowen issue with that board flashed the bios and it works ok
noware neer as good as my sis chipset based ecs board though
ok back on what i was asking
1. motherboiard brand and model and what chipset it has
2. ram type and speed
3. cpu voltage
4. cooler u have on the chip
5. are u using thermal paist
gime that and i bet i can help ya figuar out why ur having problems
if you dont i will assume you are more intrested in blaming amd for your bad choices in parts then fixing the problem(sorry if this isnt the case but i see alot of people that blame the cpu for the board//ram they couple it with)
and if its an xp chip then its not an early athlon the early ones would have been athlon clasic or to some tbird chips
if u have and older xp its a palamion based chip and yes they produce heat
if u fryed it u probbly didnt put the hsf on properly or u didnt use goop(my term for thermal paist)
CorwinB said:
Bolding mine.
Okay, I wasn't even going to post in this thread till I saw this... but both of those statements are completely false. Stock, which is how business users run their computers anyway, is just as stable as any other solution. AMD doesn't(read: could not) have only enthusiasts buy its chips. That is financial suicide.
Once you begin overclocking and such, you are on your own (and I don't think ANY overclockers, AMD or Intel based, are satisfied with crashing "3 times a day" for ANY reason). I know plenty of people who have successfully overclocked their Athlons, with no stability issues, as much as those with Pentium 4's.
yeah it seems he eather hasnt seen this or as i guessed is an intel fan who happened to try and buy a cheal athlon xp rig and got crappy parts
happens alot intel fans buy a crappy mobo with a chipset that has issues of its own then most of the time use a cheap case with a realy cheap psu another sorce of issues
to me this sounds like somebody that needs a little help if hes even got that amd system (i have seen alot of intel users clame to have an athlon box that was nothing but trobble but when asked they cant give any info at all about it they just say it sux and crashes alot)
oh and funny how if the chips suck cray would choose the server version of the a64 to use in its new super computers over intels intum
and chineese company choose opteron for there super computer over the intum
intel is the company that rushes parts out sevral of the p3 models had to be recaled or never officly shiped becouse intel couldnt make them work properly without microcode changes that made them slower then the prevous versions
the p4 has had its issues as well the intum well thats a funny one intel shiped a shit load of them to imb,hp and there other server oem's then had to send out a huge warrning about how there was a bug in the chip after ibm found it
intel's engineers knew about it but the marketing people had promised the chip by this time and by god they where gonna have it out no matter what
yes i live neer intel as i have stated before and none of my friends or assotiets that work there have a home pc with intel inside all are powered by amd
hell one of them is an intel enginer who helped design the last revesions of the p3 versions that where never marketed becouse at 2.0gz they where able to beet the 2.4gz p4 in every test
he is currently running a dual athlon xp (barton) with 4gb ram(4x1gb pc2700) and when asked why he dosnt use a dual xeon his answer is "becouse they suck"
basickly if there owen employs dont trust them why should anybody else ?
i have gotten over 20 p3-p4 rigs free from these people brand new boards chips and ram every time i trade them for amd stuff
yeah im a geek but even the most non geek intel employ i know (sherly) wanted an amd athlon system becouse she had heard at work it was better then the p4
she had me trade the stuff for her and she payed me to make her an and system granted i didnt get much but it was still worth it
oh and for that system i used an ECS: k7s5a with 512mb of ddr 2100 never even a squeek out of that system when running windows 2000(she didnt want xp and i didnt want her to use xp so we agreed on 2k)
not all there chipsets suck via dose suck :/ as do some nforce boards and even some really cheap sis based boards but with the sis its not the chipset its the cheap board design with via its chipset bugs that can only be patched over to a point with nforce its becouse the chipset for one thing is new made by a company thats only got alot of exp with video cards(and seems to now be having trobble at that end to)
happens alot intel fans buy a crappy mobo with a chipset that has issues of its own then most of the time use a cheap case with a realy cheap psu another sorce of issues
to me this sounds like somebody that needs a little help if hes even got that amd system (i have seen alot of intel users clame to have an athlon box that was nothing but trobble but when asked they cant give any info at all about it they just say it sux and crashes alot)
oh and funny how if the chips suck cray would choose the server version of the a64 to use in its new super computers over intels intum
and chineese company choose opteron for there super computer over the intum
intel is the company that rushes parts out sevral of the p3 models had to be recaled or never officly shiped becouse intel couldnt make them work properly without microcode changes that made them slower then the prevous versions
the p4 has had its issues as well the intum well thats a funny one intel shiped a shit load of them to imb,hp and there other server oem's then had to send out a huge warrning about how there was a bug in the chip after ibm found it
intel's engineers knew about it but the marketing people had promised the chip by this time and by god they where gonna have it out no matter what
yes i live neer intel as i have stated before and none of my friends or assotiets that work there have a home pc with intel inside all are powered by amd
hell one of them is an intel enginer who helped design the last revesions of the p3 versions that where never marketed becouse at 2.0gz they where able to beet the 2.4gz p4 in every test
he is currently running a dual athlon xp (barton) with 4gb ram(4x1gb pc2700) and when asked why he dosnt use a dual xeon his answer is "becouse they suck"
basickly if there owen employs dont trust them why should anybody else ?
i have gotten over 20 p3-p4 rigs free from these people brand new boards chips and ram every time i trade them for amd stuff
yeah im a geek but even the most non geek intel employ i know (sherly) wanted an amd athlon system becouse she had heard at work it was better then the p4
she had me trade the stuff for her and she payed me to make her an and system granted i didnt get much but it was still worth it
oh and for that system i used an ECS: k7s5a with 512mb of ddr 2100 never even a squeek out of that system when running windows 2000(she didnt want xp and i didnt want her to use xp so we agreed on 2k)
not all there chipsets suck via dose suck :/ as do some nforce boards and even some really cheap sis based boards but with the sis its not the chipset its the cheap board design with via its chipset bugs that can only be patched over to a point with nforce its becouse the chipset for one thing is new made by a company thats only got alot of exp with video cards(and seems to now be having trobble at that end to)
Sure buddy. Everyone who ever had troubles with an AMD computer is an Intel fan. Keep yourself telling that, and also keep wondering why AMD never got any significant deal for corporate computers... Who is the more likely to lie, the person who said "I'm an average joe who had a problem with an AMD system", or the person who says "I know an Intel engineer who uses nothing but AMD since he says the products he helped design suck" ?
Regarding your actual point, which is the exact same you will get from zealots of all sides (CPU, graphics...), that "I have no problem, you must have done something wrong", or "it's your RAM, or your motherboard, or your BIOS"... Blah. Can you spell "denial" ? Bottom line is that to get my (then top-of-the-line) Athlon rig to work, I had to invest an insane amount of time in just that kind of waste of time (flashing BIOS, changing and adding fans, researching small incompatibilities between the chipset and my SCSI controller), while the P4 system I bought after that worked right away.
Oh, and while I hate sounding like a grammar nazi, but please at least add some beginning of structure, punctuation, and proof-reading to your posts. I absolutely love being called an idiot, an Intel fan, and a moron who can't setup a system properly (hint : I do that for a living) by someone who can't spell "nowhere near".
Most of the time, the whole platform isn't stable enough : you get various issues with popular chipset vendors at various levels, ranging from insane boot times to IDE problems to having to deactivate L2 cache... Sure, BIOS and drivers updates can fix all of those, but that does not look good for the people at Dell or HP choosing what they will put in the corporate models...
Regarding the "financial suicide", how well exactly has AMD been doing the last 7 or 8 quarters ?
One incident is not indicative of a trend. The fact that you have to underclock it does indicate some sort of problem, and you still haven't answered questions with regards to your other components, which could go a long way towards identifying the problem.
I doubt the blame is with AMD, as it is clear there are a large number of people out there with no problems at all. Of course, there are people with problems as well, but that is true of anything (including Intel).
Thanks for your offer, but I have no interest in "solving" this problem anymore (at the cost of god knows how many hours of tweaking BIOS parameters, updating drivers and similar things that give the PC a bad rep), as I now have a *working* PC. My AthlonXP is now in my girlfriend's comp, and having to underclock it to get it work in a stable fashion is no big deal since it's already way too powerful for what she does.
The rest of the config was an Apollo KT266A, 512MB DDR-RAM (don't remember the brand, but it was not generic stuff). I'm running XP Pro. After the initial round of tweaking/updating BIOS and drivers, it worked fine at stock speed (I never overclocked it) for a decent time (over 1 year), then started exhibiting more and more problems which I "solved" by underclocking. The only time I saw a similar problem was with a Celeron that ran overclocked for over 1 year and a half and had to be returned to stock speed to work correctly again.
Anyway, if your Athlon runs fine, then more power to you. I'm just saying that after a personal bad experience and random similar stuff happening to friends, I am staying clear of AMD. But if you've got the time and are willing to iron those small problems by yourself, then I agree an AMD CPU has a nice performance/price ratio.
The rest of the config was an Apollo KT266A, 512MB DDR-RAM (don't remember the brand, but it was not generic stuff). I'm running XP Pro. After the initial round of tweaking/updating BIOS and drivers, it worked fine at stock speed (I never overclocked it) for a decent time (over 1 year), then started exhibiting more and more problems which I "solved" by underclocking. The only time I saw a similar problem was with a Celeron that ran overclocked for over 1 year and a half and had to be returned to stock speed to work correctly again.
Anyway, if your Athlon runs fine, then more power to you. I'm just saying that after a personal bad experience and random similar stuff happening to friends, I am staying clear of AMD. But if you've got the time and are willing to iron those small problems by yourself, then I agree an AMD CPU has a nice performance/price ratio.
I am pretty unimpressed with the Athlon FX right now. It pretty much ties with the P4 3.2C (a bit faster in some, a bit slower in other benchmarks) performance and pricewise. The thing that really suprised me most about this launch however, is how good Intels P865/870 Northbridges seem to hold up with the FXs integrated memory controller in terms of latency (if Anands benchmarks are accurate). If this trend holds true, it remains to be seen whether the integrated solution will not be seen as a rather unfortunate solution two years from now, when its inflexibilities in regard to newer memory standards become apparent (i have no doubts that integrated memory controllers will be the way of the future, i just question this particualler implemention at this point with newer mem solutions like ddr2 on the immediate horizon).
See more reviews here: http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1884 and http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030923/index.html
Specially toms´ video. Link on this page http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030923/athlon_64-07.html
The thermal protection looks great
Athlon 64 is the fastest in UT2003 botmatch (CPU intensive)
Specially toms´ video. Link on this page http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030923/athlon_64-07.html
The thermal protection looks great
Athlon 64 is the fastest in UT2003 botmatch (CPU intensive)
