I'll wager after war UK and US come out smelling like roses!

S

Sabastian

Regular
I predict that when this war is over the Iraqi people will be liberated, have a democratic government in place, they will quickly realize the wealth that Sadam has been hording for himself, love the liberty they have gained and the US and Britain will come out smelling like roses.

The protestors are not supporting the people of Iraq with their opposition to the war they are against America no matter what they do. It all seems so silly when I see protestors on one channel and on another I see happy Iraq civilians shaking hands with US soldiers fighting Sadams terrorist government. Even the people of Iraq want Sadam gone!!

Further my government(Canadian) by not supporting the regime change in Iraq is looking rather silly and is leaving me with a sense of embarrassment. The best I have heard come from them is that "we hope sadam does not win".

I believe that the major opponents to the war have something to lose if their is a change in the leadership of the country.(Not Canada I think our leaders are just kin to ocean life that have no vertebra.) These countries that were not supportive of the American invasion of Iraq had something to lose and this garbage about them being worried about lives being lost is just rhetoric. In a rather short period of time the whole ordeal will be news .... on page 3 and the Americans and British will look smart and those whom opposed the action will look like the morons (particularly the hippy protestors) they are.
 
Sxotty said:
I predict you are wrong, b/c the US never smells like roses to the rest of the world.
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Yeah thats just like the protestors... no matter what the US does they will try to find the devil in it. They focus on the negative and forget about the positive. BTW I think that is a mis-conception perpetuated by blinkered thinking. Anyhow I think you are wrong and I do think that there will be a lot of foolish feeling people in a matter of months.(Except for the brain washed Arabs who simply think that the US is the head of a snake of some sort.)
 
It will all depend critically on what kind of government the US/UK/allies put in place of the Saddam/Baath-party regime. If it is not some sort of representative democracy, US/UK will look like annoying hypocrites, and if it is, some measures still have to be taken to prevent the 3 major ethnic groups in Iraq from clashing and erupting into a Yugoslavia-like breakup.

As for the people cheering, I seem to remember reading that they were doing so not so much because they were 'liberated' from Saddam tyranny, but more out of tradition or even fear - once they were no longer in front of a camera lens, they express the same scepticism toward the invasion force as toward the Saddam regime. Presumably a case of "better the devil you know than the devil you don't". I suspect that if Saddam came back and re-"liberated" them, they would be cheering all over Iraqi TV and probably al-jazeera as well.
 
Of course, if you turn the picture over, you find the white house is above a right side up pentagram.
 
Re: I'll wager after war UK and US come out smelling like ro

Sabastian said:
I predict that when this war is over the Iraqi people will be liberated, have a democratic government in place, they will quickly realize the wealth that Sadam has been hording for himself, love the liberty they have gained and the US and Britain will come out smelling like roses.
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Well, one can hope, but I for one have somewhat lowered expectations. There seem to be many factions in Iraq that may not necessarily get along that well once everything plays out. Establishing some law and order under a new government may take quite some time. I don't think anyone can confidently predict exactly how it well turn out.

Sabastian said:
The protestors are not supporting the people of Iraq with their opposition to the war they are against America no matter what they do. It all seems so silly when I see protestors on one channel and on another I see happy Iraq civilians shaking hands with US soldiers fighting Sadams terrorist government. Even the people of Iraq want Sadam gone!!
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Agreed that some protestors seem, well... naive.

As for Iraqi citizens shaking hands with US soldiers... Well, there was an interesting article from a non-embedded reporter a couple of days ago (wish I could find it) who observed people cheering and waving at the US soldiers as they drove by... But as soon as they were out of sight, smiles turned to scowls and commented about their distrust of the Americans. I am paraphrasing from memory, so I could be wrong about the details, but the gist was that it might not be too surprising that when an overwhelmingly powerful armed force comes through, the average citizen will cheer them on despite what their true feelings may be. And consider the last paragraph of http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/26/international/worldspecial/26CND-URBAN.html?pagewanted=2 : "When Israel invaded here in 1982 we met them with showers of rice and roses," a spokesman for Lebanon's Hezbollah Shiite Muslim militia was quoted as saying. "One hundred days later we blew up their headquarters."

They may not like Saddam, but it doesn't necessarily follow that they will fully embrace the American plan.

(whoops, arjan de lumens just beat me to it...)

Further my government(Canadian) by not supporting the regime change in Iraq is looking rather silly and is leaving me with a sense of embarrassment. The best I have heard come from them is that "we hope sadam does not win".
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Yes, the Canadian government's position has been rather wishy-washy. I do think that staying out of the war because of lack of endorsement from the UN has some justification, but it also has a certain bureaucratic ring to it.

I believe that the major opponents to the war have something to lose if their is a change in the leadership of the country.(Not Canada I think our leaders are just kin to ocean life that have no vertebra.) These countries that were not supportive of the American invasion of Iraq had something to lose and this garbage about them being worried about lives being lost is just rhetoric. In a rather short period of time the whole ordeal will be news .... on page 3 and the Americans and British will look smart and those whom opposed the action will look like the morons (particularly the hippy protestors) they are.
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Well, in this gray world, I think the most realistic result will be somewhat more ambiguous.
 
Yes, the Canadian government's position has been rather wishy-washy. I do think that staying out of the war because of lack of endorsement from the UN has some justification, but it also has a certain bureaucratic ring to it.
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The US has Canada in it's back pocket, if they wanted to punish us they could tighten up the border just a bit and that'd really hose our economy. Something like 75% of jobs in Canada depend on the US, it was far from cowardly not to endorse the US.
 
observed people cheering and waving at the US soldiers as they drove by... But as soon as they were out of sight, smiles turned to scowls and commented about their distrust of the Americans.
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I'd totally buy this account and also feel it's pretty well warranted.

A lot of these people were either around or had family around from the first Gulf war and remember the same kind of thing, but with the end result being the US pulling out and leaving Sadamm back in power.

Given this reality, I totally can emphathize with Iraqi citizens that are leary and distrust American soldiers.

I don't personally see this being possible this time around, but I also dont blame the Iraqi citizens for not having much faith since this will be the second time around for many of them.
 
There is this piece of footage airing all around of a coalition troop handing out candy and water to Iraqi children. They rushed up to him and were waving as they walked off. Perhaps they won't ever have a reason to distrust the US.
 
MrsSkywalker said:
There is this piece of footage airing all around of a coalition troop handing out candy and water to Iraqi children. They rushed up to him and were waving as they walked off. Perhaps they won't ever have a reason to distrust the US.
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I recognize your optimism, but if I were to weigh the importance of the cultural environment versus candy received from strangers when formulating a world outlook, I'm afraid I would have to give the nod towards the cultural environment...
 
Saem said:
Yes, the Canadian government's position has been rather wishy-washy. I do think that staying out of the war because of lack of endorsement from the UN has some justification, but it also has a certain bureaucratic ring to it.
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The US has Canada in it's back pocket, if they wanted to punish us they could tighten up the border just a bit and that'd really hose our economy. Something like 75% of jobs in Canada depend on the US, it was far from cowardly not to endorse the US.
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Well we are dependant to a point... its actually about 40% of the economy thats based on exports and 87% of that is to the US. If no trade existed with the us we would have about 30% unemployment. However thats assuming we didnt develop other aspects of the economy to keep us busy. And letting that many people go unemployed is simply a worse case scenario. American interests own about 80% of our economy for a reason... they need what we have, and, as "socialist" as we are, Canada is a very profitable place to do business.
 
I'm not just talking about export, you have to factor in the fact that American companies hire Canadians in Canada.
 
Well being that 80% of firms in business in canada are owned by the US but if they suddenly stopped hiring or fired everyone they would be immediately replaced by another firm. Most US firms here who do business to sell products and services ot canadians as well as exports would be replaced in short order...


No firm will be so stupid as to stop doing business here. Unless we elected some faschist who then threatened the US with nukes or some stupid shit...

All Im saying is that incredible numbers that show catastrophic economic situations arent always believable.
 
I recognize your optimism, but if I were to weigh the importance of the cultural environment versus candy received from strangers when formulating a world outlook, I'm afraid I would have to give the nod towards the cultural environment...
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I understand your POV, and I agree with it. I am just trying to say that to those kids who got the candy from that US soldier, he was like a hero. I just hope that we don't do anything to screw up that image.

I don't think that the older generations in Iraq will ever trust us completely, no matter what we do. And they have every reason not to...we did, after all, leave Hussein in charge when we should have whomped his ass. However, I hope we can build a trust with the children and the young adults, and I think that that will be a strong possibility. As meaningless as it may seem in the midst of a war, the image of the soldier who gave them candy will stick with them their whole lives. Sometimes it's the little things that leave the greatest impact.
 
Re: I'll wager after war UK and US come out smelling like ro

Sabastian said:
I predict that when this war is over the Iraqi people will be liberated, have a democratic government in place, they will quickly realize the wealth that Sadam has been hording for himself, love the liberty they have gained and the US and Britain will come out smelling like roses.
Click to expand...
Sounds great. And naive.

I believe that the major opponents to the war have something to lose if their is a change in the leadership of the country.(Not Canada I think our leaders are just kin to ocean life that have no vertebra.) These countries that were not supportive of the American invasion of Iraq had something to lose and this garbage about them being worried about lives being lost is just rhetoric. In a rather short period of time the whole ordeal will be news
Click to expand...
Agree, most of the countries who are against the war will lose something.
But that goes both ways: those who support do believe they WILL RECEIVE something. (the dog wants a bone...)
.... on page 3 and the Americans and British will look smart and those whom opposed the action will look like the morons (particularly the hippy protestors) they are.
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Of course. "Winners write the history". And people who said that Hitler is bad were "morons" and "hippy". In fact Charles Chaplin was named "comunist" for his anti-war films (eg "The great dictator"). And was expulsed from USA in 1939 or 40.

What some of war-supporters should understand that most people (IMHO) are against that war not cause they like Saddam. Nor cause they hate USA.
Or cause Bush is stupid (he is not).
But because we fear who'll be the next in charge. look at US presidents from last 30 years. What's your first thought when seeing their names?
Nickson ...
Karter ...
Raygan .... ( consulting with astrolgists)
Bush I (he was Ok imho)
Clinton ....
WHo'll come after Bush II ?
Remeber, Caesar was not a monster, Oktavian August was not a monster, but later there were Neron, Kaligula ....
 
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