IHV-specific Enhancements in Games

Discussion in 'Politics & Ethics of Technology' started by OlegSH, Feb 26, 2013.

  1. Silent_Buddha

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    Havok did as well, but they ran into problems with the PCIE bus and hence, like PhysX, being extremely limited in what physics could be accelerated. When they didn't see developer interest in it they stopped pushing it. It's no wonder that Nvidia basically has to pay and/or do all the hardware accelerated PhysX themselves in order to get it incorporated into games. Not many developers appear to be really interested in mucking about with it.

    However, that said, it appears that Havok is pushing GPU accelerated physics on the new consoles due to not having to deal with traffic over PCIE. UE4 I believe is going to be heavily integrated with Havok on the new consoles. I expect on the PC side, there might be contracts between Epic and Nvidia that perhaps precludes them from offering that integration themselves although I'm sure developers are free to choose their own physics middleware.

    I fully expect GPU physics to take off on consoles like it hasn't been able to on the PC just due to not having to deal with shuffling data over PCIE and hence allowing for a much more broad use of the technology. Hopefully if Intel embraces GPU compute (big IF at the moment, IMO) and AMD continues to push APUs, we'll see that come to PCs as well.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  2. Richard

    Richard Mord's imaginary friend
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    (aside) Regardless of the physics API tug of war, there's was also the little problem of nvidia blocking PhysX on nvidia cards if you happened to have an ATI card for the graphics rendering (aside)

    Anyway, IHV-specific enhancements are good. IHV-specific blocks are bad.
     
  3. gkar1

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  4. Davros

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  5. gkar1

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    You seem to have the erroneous idea that the PS4 has a separate CPU and GPU when it doesn't. Look up the definition of APU.


    From the Sony press release PDF: http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/130221a.pdf

    PS4 is centered around a powerful custom chip that contains eight x86-64 cores and a state of the art graphics processor.
    The Graphics Processing Unit (GPU) has been enhanced in a number of ways, principally to allow for easier use of the GPU for general purpose computing (GPGPU) such as physics simulation. The GPU contains a unified array of 18 compute units, which collectively generate 1.84 Teraflops of processing power that can freely be applied to graphics, simulation tasks, or some mixture of the two.

    And if you still don't get it try reading the recent AMD blog about it: http://blogs.amd.com/fusion/2013/02/21/amd/
     
  6. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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  7. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    What sucks, too, even though it's not about PC world, is how nVidia has expanded their habits to mobile world, bringing "Tegra optimized games" with superior graphics even though Tegra isn't the fastest mobile gpu available nor support higher levels of OpenGL (ES) than others
     
  8. trinibwoy

    trinibwoy Meh
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    Why aren't you mad at Samsung or Qualcomm for not pushing devs to make better games?
     
  9. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    I'm not saying games have to look better, I'm saying it's just screwing people up when you do have a game that could run better looking, but you limit it to just one manufacturer because they pay you.
    It's no different from what nVidia has done in PC world, pay a little money to block AMD/ATI from having feature x in a game even though the hardware is capable of doing it.
     
  10. trinibwoy

    trinibwoy Meh
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    Block? What are they blocking? If nVidia didn't pay then nobody would get the improved game. There's no downside to what they're doing so I don't understand why you said it sucks. You make it sound like people want to make better games for all devices but nVidia is paying them to make it Tegra only.

    Android developers are not designing games to take advantage of high end devices. They are targeting mainstream hardware for obvious reasons. So how else do you get them to release souped up versions of their games?
     
  11. DSC

    DSC
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    http://www.bjorn3d.com/2010/01/nvidia-gf100-fermi-gpu/

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Remember kids, Nvidia is the devil according to AMD fanboys.
     
  12. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    Do you have proof that they wouldn't release the improved game for all that are capable if it wasn't for nVidias money being involved? We do have proof from PC world from nVidias habits on blocking features from AMD/ATI even when the hardware is capable of doing them.

    --

    DSC, yes, no-one is denying that nVidia have done good things too, but we do have proof from plenty of cases where they've intentionally blocked AMD/ATI hardware (since the features work just fine if you just fake your AMD/ATI to show nVidia device ID)
     
  13. Malo

    Malo Yak Mechanicum
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    That Star Tales slide is funny. Such a complete flip to the Batman AA debacle. This thread was so destined for greatness from the start. Locked within 24 hours from now?
     
  14. I.S.T.

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    Might as well kill it now, really. We all know the past things and present things both companies do, IMO, there's no need to re-hash it.
     
  15. trinibwoy

    trinibwoy Meh
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    You have all the proof in the world staring you in the face. Just look at the quality of the games before nVidia got involved. That's your answer right there of how things would be without their intervention. i.e. mediocre graphics for everyone!

    I could never understand this mentality where it's better for everyone to live with crap than for some people to have it good.
     
  16. zorg

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    In the mobile world this strategy will not work. Nobody care about the SoC in the phone/tablet ... expect us. :lol:
     
  17. CarstenS

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    Maybe that's exactly the reason why? Having not the greatest performance nor the best techlevel available seems to call for specific optimizations like nothing else.
     
  18. CarstenS

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    Sorry for self-quote, but here it is: Titan on AMDs home-turf.
    http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Gefor...X-Titan-GK110-Benchmark-AMD-Techdemo-1057761/

    The gist: Very good at OIT, Bullet Physics, Compute-stuff, but rather less good (though roughly on par with 7970 GE) in Forward+ (I doubt, Ptex/PRT does really play a major role here).

    What's beyond the scope of the article is, how much more optimization for OIT and the stuff that's used in Mecha/OIT would be possible for GCN. Both demos were targeted at VLIW-archs, after all.
     
  19. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    In this case "Tegra optimized" means better graphics than other users get
     
  20. CarstenS

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    And what's the conclusion - especially in the light that Tegra is, according to a post further up, on an inferior tech level and of lesser performance?
     
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