I just watched the sorriest debate I've ever seen...

[covermye]

I just finished wasting an hour of my life watching the California Gub. debate. This was by far the worst moderated, worst performed, worst argued debate that this American has ever experienced.


To summarize:

- Arnold came across as a total talking head.
- If Huffington receives 3 votes after this immature display of personal attacks, I give up all hope on mankind. She's LOONEY!!!
- Lt. Gov. Bust-a-budget seems like a wuss, but at least MADE POINTS every once in a while
- McClintock made some legit. points, not the least of which was his answer to the question about healthcare for children of illegal immigrants. After everybody else gave feel-good answers about how it's not the kids's fault and proposed everything from free healthcare to all illegal minors to giving illegals drivers licenses, McClintock reminded everyone to not forget that the U.S. has VERY LIBERAL immigration laws, and THOUSANDS of people legally enter this country every day to raise their families here. These "illegals" are essentially jumping in line, as he put it. Should we reward this behavior by giving them the same benefits they'd otherwise receive if they had followed all the rules?

Anyhow, if anybody watched it, you've GOT to agree with my report on Huffington. She's freakin' insane and spent the entire time taking personal stabs at Arnold (who had absolutely ZERO substance to any of his answers, IMO).

All in all, entertaining, but sad for the state of California...

 

[pax]

Didnt see but I thought Warren Buffett by now would have written a good speech for Arnie on economic issues...

 

[zurich]

I haven't really been keeping track of the California elections (Ontario is in full swing election mode right now).. but from what I've heard Arnie still hasn't said a peep about what he plans do to (besides 'Cleaning House')?

Like, with all his money and fame.. what's he doing? Hoping to attract non-voter types in droves?

Strange, strange strategy.

 

[epicstruggle]

I haven't really been keeping track of the California elections (Ontario is in full swing election mode right now).. but from what I've heard Arnie still hasn't said a peep about what he plans do to (besides 'Cleaning House')?

Like, with all his money and fame.. what's he doing? Hoping to attract non-voter types in droves?

Strange, strange strategy.

what!!!! Did you watch the debate or are you talking from ignorance. I personally dont think that Arnold is the right person for the job. I like McClintock myself. But Arnold has been stating what he plans on doing for the last few weeks. Details have been made.

Since you live across the border im sure the news coverage is very limited. So im sure your news source are basically saying something like california recall = Carnival and Terminator for Governor. Which is probably why you have absolutly no idea what is happening there. Im in michigan, so thats the type of coverage we get. Im sure your getting the same.

Dont assume that Arnold hasnt put details out there, its just that its boring news and wont be covered over all the hoopla.

later,
epic

 

[Vince]

- If Huffington receives 3 votes after this immature display of personal attacks, I give up all hope on mankind. She's LOONEY!!!

Yeah, I think she forgot that she's not on Real Time with Bill Maher. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think the constant Bush Administration bashing utilizing Arnold as a proxie is that funny in a race for Governor.

 

[Sazar]

- If Huffington receives 3 votes after this immature display of personal attacks, I give up all hope on mankind. She's LOONEY!!!

Yeah, I think she forgot that she's not on Real Time with Bill Maher. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think the constant Bush Administration bashing utilizing Arnold as a proxie is that funny in a race for Governor.

yah... huffington scares the crap outta me... dang...

 

[covermye]

I just got to work this morning and have to re-iterate: Huffington is one freaking wacky woman. I live in Indiana, but just the thought of her RUNNING for Gov. of ANY state in the union is laughable.

She basically spent the entire hour interrupting Arnold any time he said anything, then changing the subject altogether by either personally attacking Arnold or Bush in some way. More than once she was "reprimanded" by the wuss moderator (this guy was bad too) for personal attacks.

Example: She had interrupted Arnold on some subject or another, proceeded to give her point of view, then when Arnold jumped in over her, said something along the lines of (refering to him interrupting her), "We know this is how you treat women..."

Just totally uncalled for behavior by someone wanting to be in control of the largest state in America.

Again, I'm totally not defending Arnold, who I thought was just spewing "easy answer" rhetoric left and right.

 

[RussSchultz]

Arianna did her job: make Arnold look bad. By interrupting him and dragging him into the mud, it prevents him from legitimately addressing and elucidating his points (which many people are criticizing him for not elucidating).

People will walk away from the debate still not knowing where Arnold stands on the issues--which is what she wants. I'm sure the other candidates aren't too disappointed either.

edit: feh. early morning, bad grammar, poor proofreading

 

[Silent_One]

Vince wrote:

Yeah, I think she forgot that she's not on Real Time with Bill Maher. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think the constant Bush Administration bashing utilizing Arnold as a proxie is that funny in a race for Governor.

Yeah, I agree. At least Arnold told her she's running in the wrong race if she wants to complain about Bush all the time. Her only answers for California amounted to "close corporate loop-holes - bash Bush - free healthcare & drivers licenses to illegal immigrants- Bash Arnold - close corporate loop-holes - Bash Bush."

RussSchultz wrote

Arianna did her job: make Arnold look bad. By interrupting him and dragging him into the mud, it prevents him from legitimately addressing and elucidating his points (which many people are criticizing him for not elucidating).

She did do that. Although I don't think Arnold really knows what the hell to do when it comes to running California.

 

[covermye]

Well if her priority was really just to make Arnold look bad, I've got to admit she did that. However, she looked even WORSE than him in the process...

Again, McClintock seemed to be the only one that looked like someone I'd want running my state if it were in the situation California's currently in. It shocked me that every candidate besides him was willing to discuss the possibility of a stat-run healthcare system, health care for children of illegals, benefits for illegals, etc... when the state is $8 Billion Plus in the hole right now.

 

[Fred]

I thought Arnold was really funny. Detailed substance is provided by his advisors (as usual for nearly all public office officials), i'd vote for him in a second.

He is nice and moderate, and anti big government which is Cali's big problem.

 

[RussSchultz]

when the state is $8 Billion Plus in the hole right now.

Wasn't it some $30+ billion budget shortfall for this year alone?

 

[covermye]

Oops. That was supposed to read $38 Billion, which is a number I saw quoted a couple of times last week. Need to work on that left-middle finger extension up to the "3" key...

-Chris

 

[zurich]

what!!!! Did you watch the debate or are you talking from ignorance. I personally dont think that Arnold is the right person for the job. I like McClintock myself. But Arnold has been stating what he plans on doing for the last few weeks. Details have been made.

Since you live across the border im sure the news coverage is very limited. So im sure your news source are basically saying something like california recall = Carnival and Terminator for Governor. Which is probably why you have absolutly no idea what is happening there. Im in michigan, so thats the type of coverage we get. Im sure your getting the same.

Dont assume that Arnold hasnt put details out there, its just that its boring news and wont be covered over all the hoopla.

later,
epic

Wow, someone got up on the wrong side of bed today.

Read what I wrote:

I haven't really been keeping track of the California elections (Ontario is in full swing election mode right now)..

To reiterate:

There is no coverage of the California elections here. I couldn't have watched the debate even if I wanted to. What I have read, has been the once-a-week visits to msnbc.com.

So instead of jumping to (faulty) conclusions, next time answer my question.

 

[stevem]

Go Arny, go!

 

[epicstruggle]

@zurich, reread your original post. If you have not been paying much attention to the issue, how can you make a comment that Arnold is not addressing real issues. Im getting sick and tired of that kinda crap. Ill admit that im quite guilty of it too. Sorry if i sound rude.

later,
epic

 

[Fat Drew]

- McClintock made some legit. points, not the least of which was his answer to the question about healthcare for children of illegal immigrants. After everybody else gave feel-good answers about how it's not the kids's fault and proposed everything from free healthcare to all illegal minors to giving illegals drivers licenses, McClintock reminded everyone to not forget that the U.S. has VERY LIBERAL immigration laws, and THOUSANDS of people legally enter this country every day to raise their families here. These "illegals" are essentially jumping in line, as he put it. Should we reward this behavior by giving them the same benefits they'd otherwise receive if they had followed all the rules?

Let's remember you're talking about children, CHILDREN, you can not seriously want to deny a child medical care just because their parent chose to look for a better life in California. Besides that, I tire of hearing how illegals are such a burden on the state of California. Lets be realistic, look around, they're the backbone of our economy. They do all the jobs that no one else will do. The only reason we never hear about their contribution is because its illegal to employ them. Im sure all the people who employ them, especially the farmers, love the fact that they are forced to accept wages much lower than those of legal residents.

 

[covermye]

Let's remember you're talking about children, CHILDREN, you can not seriously want to deny a child medical care just because their parent chose to look for a better life in California.

I never said I wanted to do this. I definitely don't want to provide free medical care to their parents... or give the parents driver's licenses...

If we go THAT far, why do we have immigration laws at all? Hell, what's the difference between a "legal" and an "illegal" in that case? Let's just open up our borders all the way around the country and see what happens. Just think about how strong our economy will be then, since these people are the "backbone" of it and all that...

Im sure all the people who employ them, especially the farmers, love the fact that they are forced to accept wages much lower than those of legal residents.

I'm right in the middle of the farming capital of the world (figuratively speaking), in NW Indiana. Busses of migrant workers from Mexico come up every spring and work all summer long in the fields, detassleing corn, digging corn out of the bean fields, picking up rocks in the fields before they're even planted, etc.. etc... Not pleasant jobs, but guess what? 10-15 years ago, these jobs were all done by school kids in the summer. I should know. I worked my ass off in many a field until I went to college.

Why migrants now instead of school kids? The kids just plain won't do the work any more. It's not a "pay" issue, as usually we were paid less than minimum wage, in cash (for "tax purposes" ) for our work. I know from direct contact with these farmers that it costs them just as much, if not more, to "bus" the migrants here from whereever, build crudely constructed homes for them, and maintain these facilities for the workers and their children, AND pay them.

Side note: What do school kids around here do now in the summers? Pretty much whatever they want to do. Very few worry about getting jobs. That mentality has totally changed in this short timespan for some reason. Sad, really...

What's my point? Mainly that the stereotypical farmer doesn't make a killing off of hiring "illegals", first of all.

Secondly, nobody is "forcing" these migrant workers to accept any sort of pay. If they don't like the pay they're receiving, they can truck it right on back to Mexico. They WANTED to come here to make whatever they're making, which is an improvement over what they would otherwise be getting in Mexico.

To close, I'll ask again, if we pay illegals the same as legal immigrants, offer their children AND them medical coverage, give them drivers licenses, and who-knows-what-other benefits, what purpose do our immigration laws have at all?

 

[epicstruggle]

all those who have been illegal immigrants please raise their hands.

[looks around the room, then raises hand]

I was an illegal immigrant for something like 16 or 17 years. I received my green card 3 years ago, making me a legar resident. So ill be a citizen in 2 years. I came here not because i wanted to, but because my parents wanted a better life and took the kids along.

We did jump the line (as McKlintock said). But we have more than repaid our debt to this country. My parents came here with less than $10k and for the last few years have made more money than the president's salary (not including all the perks). Even though my parents are well off, they live very simple lives. We never expected the govermnent to take care of us. All we wanted was a chance to succed. Thats why Ill always defend the US. The possibilities are more plentifull here then anywhere else on earth.

Look I do think there is a problem with illegal immigration and immigration in general. I have no problem with people coming to this country. But is it asking for so much that they come here, learn the language, and not get on govermnent assistance(unless absolutly necessary). Many come here just to feed off the pig troff(sp?) and dont want to put any hard work in.

If you want to come to this country and work hard, learn the language and the culture. Then I have no problem with letting you in.

anyways just my 2 cents.
later,
epic

 

[Willmeister]

She did do that. Although I don't think Arnold really knows what the hell to do when it comes to running California.

Not to appear pushing for Arnie, but hasn't it been all the learned politicos, the lawyers, the accountants, who've gotten our governments in these messes today? Given the amount of degrees that can be found in our elected assemblies, one has to seriously question the value of a modern education. Maybe we do need people whose common sense hasn't been abstracted and rationalized out of existence...

I guess I have to raise my hand too. Technically, I was an illegal in the USA too. But since I'm white and speak without an accent, I didn't have to worry.