HL2 source has supposedly been leaked

If you are waiting to buy the best card for HL2, the best thing to do is wait until the game is out before buying a card. There's no point buying R360 and waiting 6 months, if HL2 then arrives at the same time as R420. In that case you'd have been better hanging on and getting a R420 for the same money, *if* you're focussed on what is best for HL2.

Worse yet for ATI, you might not buy a R420. You might (heaven forbid) buy an NV40 if it closes the gap and makes the buying decision between ATI/Nvidia top end cards less of a no-brainer decision. There might be a situation where NV40 arrives, and HL2 comes out before R420, giving a crucial few months lead in performance/features to Nvidia.

I don't think the above is going to be the case, but a lot of people will *think* that way, and that is why ATI could find they lose out on sales that might have gone to R360 *now*, or even later to R420.

Depends on how late HL2 arrives, and how confident the 9800XT purchasers are that the game will arrive in a reasonable timescale (probably before Christmas).

 

Oh, I have no trouble at all believing that to a basically honest mind such a course of action would indeed seem like "suicide." It certainly would to me, because I have confidence in the fact that I would be caught. As well, the thought of jail I find to be a sufficient deterrent...

I don't know how many times I read news stories of people being caught for commiting crimes that to me simply seem incomprehensible. I think, "Why did they do that, didn't they know they'd get caught?"

As I mentioned in another post, white-collar crime is all too common, and corporate executives drawing salaries of hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, sometimes with stock portfolios worth millions, who have college degrees and should know better, are now cooling their heels in jails, convicted of felonies, much of their wealth confiscated, and their lives and careers ruined. Not to mention the lives of their spouses and children.

Yes, they should have known better, and they did know better, but unlike you and I, they believed themselves too clever to get caught. In short, what may seem "suicidal" to you or to me simply does not to other people. Proof of that reality is abundant, and is a part of the public record.

The fact is that whomever it was who did this, he/she/it/they/them would never have done it had they believed they would get caught. That's the difference, most likely, between us and the party or parties responsible.

It's not just a disclaimer, it's the truth. I believe they had all of the physical and monetary resources necessary for something like this, and possibly even a motive, from their point of view, based on their behavior for most of the last year towards software not publicly portraying their products in the manner they wished to see them portrayed.

It's not a situation for them like it was with the TR:AoD benchmark--such that they can pick up the phone and have Valve stop benchmarking the way Valve has done, or send threatening letters, or *whatever* it was they did that managed to force a software publisher like Eidos to publicly trash its own software while at the same time actively plugging a particular IHV's product line--in the same statement! Such a course of action was not an option for them with Valve.

But in motive for this crime I am sure they are not alone, and I have seen no evidence of any type directly linking them to this event. That is why I say that although I see them "capable" of it for the reasons I have stated--motive, opportunity, and the necessary means--I do not see any evidence that they did it, and they are certainly not alone with respect to conceivable motive, opportunity, and the means to have pulled this off.

But somebody here has done something, of that there is no doubt.

As I said in the other post, I'm not comfortable at all in having no knowledge as to whether Valve has involved legal authority in this matter. If it turns out that there is to be no official involvement by legal authority in this matter on a criminal basis, then I must then question the entire account as Newell has portrayed it thus far. It's great to involve the "community" in helping to establish the identity of the likely parties, but the "community" lacks any legal authority to do anything about it. Right?...

I'm just saying that for the reasons stated I'm keeping an open mind here, and just trying hash out all of the possibilities, discounting none. On an emotional level it's kind of hard to describe--the whole thing has made me sick and frankly disgusted with the state of the industry as a whole right now. I am disillusioned and disappointed that the state of the 3d industry has fallen to this low level. You know, some of the best computer games I ever played were created by one-man companies, often working at home. Nowadays it's mega-glitz, and mega-bucks, with all kinds of preening "personalities" infesting the woodwork--companies hiring with huge budgets--the equivalent of using nukes to swat flies, etc. I have this very uncomfortable feeling that this event represents just the tip of the iceburg as to the kinds of things going on behind the scenes. If this kind of thing continues indefinitely I can see myself putting down 3d gaming and just walking away. Things like this I can definitely live without.

 

Where did I ever try to quantify the type of monetary damage?

HL2 won't make much difference?

Why is it that the only time people (masses) really started jumping off the nVidia ship is after half-life benchmarks were shown by Valve?

HL2 makes a huge difference. It's one of the most hotly anticipated games.

Russ, we're talking about the masses here, and we're talking about mind-share. How do you put a price tag on "mind-share?" You don't. You do know that it's an important aspect though, don't you?

Ask ATI...they invested 6 million into the partnership with Valve.

What do you think?

No offense, give me a fuckin' break.

YOU are the one that started this "you're an nVidia hater" first in this thread.

Yes, we know this Russ. Every time someone accuses you of nVidia bias, you deny it.

Nor did I claim it does. My arguments stand on their own merits.

Russ, give up on the "you're an NVIDIA hater" accusations.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head there Joe, the whole tide of popular opinion shifted on Shader Day. The people who had been decrying nVidia as cheats and liars were suddenly no longer the lunatic fringe but rather were demonstrated right.

It's a BIG deal!

(Oh, you can call me an nVidia hater...I don't see any reason not to hate them for their current deplorable business practices and I tend to take things to extremes. )

 

I really did think this was pretty funny. However I'm still going to have to remain a supporter of Caps viewpoint throughout this discussion.
My question regarding the B3Dinfomin was also meant humerously as indicated by the animated laughing face thingy.

I am now calling a French-Canadian friend of mine to see if this is actually meeting the bare minimum: At Least The French Think Its Funny on the international funny scale. I am being serious this time.

Caps

international funny scale = IFS, some of you might better recognize the common three-letter-acronym (TLA) for this standard

 

That's like saying the NV30 is the greatest chip ever because Peter Glaskowhatshisface said so.

 

And in a useful vein...looky what I found on MSNBC here:

EDITED BITS: I found a bit more and posted on EB's front-page, but here's the whole blurb in it's entirety so there is no need to go read it there. Seems the BBC is covering it too.

 

post deleted. scuze

Caps

 

Well Dig, who better to determine what meets this criteria? As for the Nv30, how could you possibly doubt anyones authority with a name like "Glaskowhatshisface"? He sounds legit to me.

As for your following post: keep us posted!

Caps

 

Ok, but only if you guys will lighten up a bit on Russ. He's not only wrong, but he's pretty outnumbered too and I like him and hate to see him battered so.

 

Ya, OK. I guess there's enough senseless violence going on in the Middle East, we don't really need anymore.

I extend the olive branch of peace. (Hey Dave, where's the olive branch emoticon?)

Caps

 

And what, pray tell, am I wrong about?

 

Hey, if you're entitled to your opinion ain't I entitled to think your opinion is wrong?

If not, then I guess I just typed it wrong...

 

Looks like they got their work experience kid to write this one...

Couple of surprising grammatical errors too...

 

Network security is a tradeoff.
- the most secure PC is turned off and locked in a deposit box in a bank vault - but it doesn't do you much good.
- the most useful PC is totally connected, runs any software, can be accessed from home for those moments when you get a 10pm phone call saying "You broke the build and we are releasing a demo at 9am", etc. This will last less than a day on the internet before being hacked. http://amsterdam.nettime.org/Lists-Archives/nettime-l-0106/msg00126.html

So you have to pick where you want to be.

 

Heck, I don't even remember what my original account name was, let alone the password. It's probably long gone anyway; lost in one of the moves.

Of course, but the fact is that the B3D forum speaks louder than B3D, and when people think B3D, they think the forum. With apologies to those who run the front page, they're one and the same in my book.

Online personas are a useful tool. They allow you to talk to complete strangers without worrying about what kind of people they are. And it can be fun to put on a different face for others--change your style in certain ways, and see how people react. It's easier to do on the net than in real life, and there are fewer consequences.

 

Its amusing that people, even companies, get so bothered about the chatter on a forum.

 

I would say "interesting", not "amusing". Forum chatter is the collective subconscious of the net. People talk about stuff, and if it's important enough, eventually it percolates up and becomes a big thing.

The HL2 leak probably started on Usenet somewhere with one person. The forum members started talking about it, spreading the news, and before you know it, MSNBC and the BBC are carrying the story. So forum chatter is a useful predicative tool.

 

So in other words your "Bias" meter shouldn't be representative of bias, but a predition of the current state of play in the high end 3D market.

 

Ha, ha. You have a point, but it's more like the current perception of the state of the high-end graphics market. It's a more useful metric anyway, since people purchase based on their perception of truth, not the truth itself.

And of course B3D isn't the only site out there...