Help needed buying a digital camera

[tongue_of_colicab]

Hi guys,

I'll be going to Japan for 6 months soon and I would like to make some photographs will I'm there. But I don't have a digital camera and I don't know anything (usefull) about them. Last time I went there I took my parent's camera but besides the thing being bulky the pictures kinda sucked. Though that might as well be me not knowing how the handle the thing.

I want to spend about 200 euro's. I don't really have any specific wishes apart from it being idiot proof. Also a small form factor would be nice. All the Japanese exchange students here have camera's that are pretty compact and the lens gets all the way into the body so you can easily put it in your pocket or bag everyday unlike some camera's that have awkward shapes on the side and all.

Can anybody recommand me some models?

 

[Davros]

buy a brand name its pretty hard to buy a bad one in that price range

ps: doesnt your phone have a camera on it ?

 

[Mize]

go for bigger, high-quality lens and worry less about megapixels.

I have a Panasonic Lumix DMC-Z56 from costco that has a Leica lens and takes amazing photos.

 

[RudeCurve]

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Q110superzoomgroup/

BTW do you want pretty but artificial looking pictures or not so pretty but accurate "real" looking?

 

[AlphaWolf]

Even digital camera's are still all about optics.
Get something with good optical zoom.
You'll need to weigh the portability vs your required featureset.

I've heard good things about the panasonic lumix ZS7 (DMC TZ-10 in europe), it has a 12x zoom, but its bulkier than something like the Canon SD 1400IS (IXUS 130) which has 4x zoom, would be cheaper and still might fulfill your needs.

 

[pcchen]

Also buy one with a big sensor. Small sensor cameras are not much better than your cell phone.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

buy a brand name its pretty hard to buy a bad one in that price range

ps: doesnt your phone have a camera on it ?

It does but apart from those quick I want a pic of this situations I preffer a normal camera as quality is just much better.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Q110superzoomgroup/

BTW do you want pretty but artificial looking pictures or not so pretty but accurate "real" looking?

Real looking I think. Btw the camera's in that link are out of my price bracket. Also they seem to be more for somebody who is interrested in taking pictures. Too much options for me it seems.

Even digital camera's are still all about optics.
Get something with good optical zoom.
You'll need to weigh the portability vs your required featureset.

I've heard good things about the panasonic lumix ZS7 (DMC TZ-10 in europe), it has a 12x zoom, but its bulkier than something like the Canon SD 1400IS (IXUS 130) which has 4x zoom, would be cheaper and still might fulfill your needs.

Size is not that important as long as the lens and all just fully retract into the body. It's all just millimeter work so not that important.

I read a bit about the TZ10 and it does seem a good camera but at 240 euro's a bit expensive. But it seems the TZ8 has the same specs but is only 180 euro's. It does have a smaller screen and no gps but that is no problem for me. Just need to check if the internals are the same.

Also buy one with a big sensor. Small sensor cameras are not much better than your cell phone.

Is there any easy way to check if it has a big sensor or not? It seems that isn't generally listed on the spec sheet.

I'll also check out some sony cybershot models I think. 2 friends of mine got one and they seems to be happy with it. Though they don't know anything about photography either.

 

[RudeCurve]

Btw the camera's in that link are out of my price bracket. Also they seem to be more for somebody who is interrested in taking pictures. Too much options for me it seems.

Oops sorry meant to post this link.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Q210grouptravelzoom/page24.asp

 

[pcchen]

Is there any easy way to check if it has a big sensor or not? It seems that isn't generally listed on the spec sheet.

Some camera manufacturers still list them, but there is a disturbing trend that it's missing on more and more cameras' spec sheet.

Note that except very large sensors (generally only found in digital SLR or "pseudo-SLR" camera), most sensor sizes are expressed in a weird 1/N inch format. For example, currently the popular size for small cameras seems to be 1/2.33" (this is an example). iPhone 4's rear camera uses a 1/3.2" sensor, which is smaller. This number does not indicate the diagonal of the sensor though, the actual size is actually smaller. This article has a brief explanation of the system of sensor size.

 

[Sxotty]

t2i is a great camera.

 

[AlphaWolf]

t2i is a great camera.

I love mine, but the OP was looking for something smaller and cheaper.

 

[Sxotty]

I love mine, but the OP was looking for something smaller and cheaper.

Ah well I guess I had it on the brain since I have been thinking about it. What about the video quality? I have a 400D and want a 550D kind of (for higher ISO range and lower noise). If I can shoot video on par with a <$200 camcorder (like the flip ones) then I would jump in. I cannot seem to find anyway that can tell me though. Most reviews compare to expensive camcorders.

Obviously with additional accoutrements it shoots excellent video, but if you just try to get some video how does it do? I would buy the LCD eyepiece thing if I did it, but not a lot of other stuff. I planned to use the magic lantern firmware as well probably since it has some super advantages. Maybe canon will come out with something even better though soon who knows.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Ah well I guess I had it on the brain since I have been thinking about it. What about the video quality? I have a 400D and want a 550D kind of (for higher ISO range and lower noise). If I can shoot video on par with a <$200 camcorder (like the flip ones) then I would jump in. I cannot seem to find anyway that can tell me though. Most reviews compare to expensive camcorders.

Obviously with additional accoutrements it shoots excellent video, but if you just try to get some video how does it do? I would buy the LCD eyepiece thing if I did it, but not a lot of other stuff. I planned to use the magic lantern firmware as well probably since it has some super advantages. Maybe canon will come out with something even better though soon who knows.

I don't shoot a lot of video but the quality is quite good. Easily as good as any cheaper video camera. It has a time limit on how long a video you can shoot. So if you are looking to shoot really long videos, it won't. I think the limit is 12 or 15 minutes or something, I've never actually done it, so I dunno, it has some warnings about possible overheating in the manual when shooting video.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

I'm leaning towards the lumix tz8 now. It's in my price range and according to reviews it seems to be a good camera. I also tried finding some reviews of the sony cybershot dsc 390 my friend bought but all google gives me is sites that sell it...

Btw, is it normal for pictures to look like there is a lot of noize? In the reviews I read they said that the tz8 lense is good but when I check the sample pictures I fund them quite fuzzy and to have a lot of noise. I expected them to be very sharp but they seem to actually be less sharp than my old camera. Kinda gave me a mobile phone feeling.

 

[Sxotty]

I don't shoot a lot of video but the quality is quite good. Easily as good as any cheaper video camera. It has a time limit on how long a video you can shoot. So if you are looking to shoot really long videos, it won't. I think the limit is 12 or 15 minutes or something, I've never actually done it, so I dunno, it has some warnings about possible overheating in the manual when shooting video.

I believe it is 29min limit. I was just worried it would be shaky. It sounds pretty awesome.

Tongue noise is absolutely not normal unless you have high iso. Generally RAW has more noise since it isn't smoothed out like JPEGs are, but in bright light and zoomed out you should see smooth pics. Don't know how familiar you are with cameras, but obviously you need light. If you zoom a lens you generally get less light and need a higher ISO (more sensitivity in CCD) so you get more noise.

 

[rbaker]

The lovely thing about buying a camera in Japan is you can either get a model that will not be available in Europe for 6~12 months (if ever), or the previous generation model at half that price.

My favorite shop is BicCamera. They have stores at all the major Tokyo area stations as well as Yokohama, Kyoto, Nagoya and Osaka. Last trip I picked up a tiny Lumix that takes great photos for ~100 euros. Your 200 euros will get you the latest model point and shoot - but you could spend twice that for the top of the line.

At the major BicCamera stores the camera OEMs often have their own representatives there to explain their products (in Japanese of course). This is extremely helpful if you want the details of the product line and features. When I bought my camera the Canon representative had a portfolio of sample photos showing the subtle colour differences in different models.

You can preview some of the selection on their website (Japanese), but there may be more cameras and better deals in the store. The link below should take you to the Lumix page:

https://www.biccamera.com/bicbic/js...KER_NAME=%83%70%83%69%83%5C%83%6A%83%62%83%4E

There is a complete list of the BicCamera stores here for a Japanese friend or to feed to Google translate:

http://www.biccamera.co.jp/shoplist/index.html

BicCamera has a rebate system where they put 10% of what you spend on a card that you can apply towards any future purchase in the store. You will need a Japanese address to apply for BicCamera point card.

 

[Frank]

I agree with the good lens / optical zoom bit.

Further, the best cameras have only 6-7 megapixels (except for the professional ones, which use a much bigger sensor). If you go higher than that, the cells become too small and you increase the shutter time, noise and movement blurring. Sure, those can be corrected digitally, but that leaves you with a worse picture overall than one made with less megapixels.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

But all camera's on sale in my price bracket seem to be 10+ megapixels. Isn't there a option on camera's to select how many megapixels you want? Afterall there is little point in taking a 12+ mp picture if I will be viewing the photo's on my pc or HD tv.

@rbaker: I thought about that but the price difference doesn't seem to be that big. The TZ10 for example is only 40 euro's cheaper if I would buy it in Japan. Than I have potential warranty problems, have to drag a powerplug converter with me all the time etc and in case of a model that isn't on sale in europe/us I also don't get a english manual. Now this shouldn't be that much of a problem as i'm studying Japanese but I rather just have a English manual as I won't have any trouble reading that.

 

[pcchen]

But all camera's on sale in my price bracket seem to be 10+ megapixels. Isn't there a option on camera's to select how many megapixels you want? Afterall there is little point in taking a 12+ mp picture if I will be viewing the photo's on my pc or HD tv.

CCD can operate in a "reduced resolution" mode by combining adjacent pixels into a big pixel, so you don't have to worry about the resolution being too high. CMOS sensors do not have this mode AFAIK, but it can still be handled digitally, i.e. taking pictures in high resolution and downsample it digitally. If the video processor on the camera is good there shouldn't be too many problems with that (for example, when using reduced resolution, the camera can effectively working with faster shutter or smaller aperture by simply adding four pixel values together). Of course, there are still a small downside of resolution being too high because if you never use those high resolution you end up wasting some sensor area on non-photon-catching logics. But, as you mentioned, it's very difficult to find a "normal resolution" camera now, unfortunately.

 

[Frank]

But all camera's on sale in my price bracket seem to be 10+ megapixels. Isn't there a option on camera's to select how many megapixels you want? Afterall there is little point in taking a 12+ mp picture if I will be viewing the photo's on my pc or HD tv.

Well, everyone knows that more megapixels is better, right? You get more value for your money. Or so people and salesmen think.