HBRU's "I think there's going to be a PS4 Pro2" thread *spawn

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by HBRU, Apr 17, 2018.

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  1. HBRU

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    ok you are right... Sony wants to sell SW mainly... As long as they sell SW its ok... You want to keep playing games on the Day One PS4 and wait for PS5 ? Its ok. Buy the game. Thank you. Are there new games that doesnt run well on the old PS4 ? Here you have a quite cheap PRO2 that runs your old PS4 games and also -as promised- (at least at 30 fps@720p) the true next gen PS5 games... So your bang for the buck is assured....

    yes PS5 is coming in 2023 IMHO... How much cost a one Tera SSD...? 4K games are going be huge...
     
  2. Shifty Geezer

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    So I can buy a $400 or whatever Pro2 to play PS4 games marginally better and then not be able to afford a $400 PS5 that plays next-gen games properly as intended? You're offering me the worst of both worlds.
     
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  3. Megadrive1988

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    I don't believe Sony is going to do a PS4 Pro 2 - I think their next stop will be straight to PS5 in 2020 and that new base will use ZEN 2 or ZEN 3 coupled with semi-custom Navi+NextGen elements.

    crazy talk begin!

    PS5 Pro in 2023-2024 using 5nm EUV - ZEN5 and NextNextGen GPU -
    Chiplet / multi die design and the future memory that's stacked directly on top of the GPU, which should be a generation beyond HBM3

    The leap from PS5 to PS5 Pro will be more like the leap we saw Microsoft make with the X1, and again, PS5 Pro will be a PS5.

    PS5 games will run on PS5 and PS5 Pro, but not on PS4 Pro, since PS4/PS4 Pro use Jaguar and PS5/PS5 Pro are Zen based.

    That said, the purpose of a PS5 Pro won't be to do 8K resolution, but rather, more ray-traced based rendering / with the GPU able to do more rays than a PS5 could (and I don't expect PS5 to be all that great at raytracing, it won't have enough performance with 11-15 TFlops (Digital Foundry's guesstimate). But a PS5 Pro with 4x the GPU power (44 ~ 60 TF) could have enough power to run the type of graphics we saw at GDC using multiple Titan V cards.

    /crazy talk.
     
  4. HBRU

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    Shifty you do it 5 years early :)

    at 7nm ps4 production price and ps4pro production price will be very much the same... So it is in Sony interest to keep the production of the better / long lasting one...
    That is the PRO.

    if the possible PRO2@7nm is just a 6 TF, 8 giga GDDR6 on the same 256 bit bus with 16 jaguars@2,6 ghz it is even possible to discontinue both old consoles production and let gamers buy that one for maybe 350 $... If someone wants a budget machine can just buy an used one...
     
    #44 HBRU, Apr 20, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2018
  5. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
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    At the launch of Pro, they didn't want to talk about the possibility of a second pro iteration (gamasutra inteview, etc..) but didn't outright rule it out, they just said there will still be a ps5, they still want generations (want, but unclear if it will) , and that pro is the same gen as ps4. A mid-gen refresh. And Yoshida was saying that a hardware refresh is a lot of work planned long in advance, which indicates a low probability of a three-quarter gen update.

    Maybe discussions with studios is now advancing and decisions have been made. There is now more confidence in their answers, despite still refusing to talk much about PS5 time frame. They now openly say it will definitely be another generation, it will still use discs and more game streaming features like ps now.
     
    #45 MrFox, Apr 20, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
  6. HBRU

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    yes, ok little possibility of this... a PRO2 SOC gddr6 based is actually just an alternative as plain shrinking the pro SOC.... PRO2 would be back compatibile without patches to both vanilla PS4 and PRO... (and maybe also forward with a future ps5 having PRO2 a 16 thread CPU)...

    also a good idea would be to equip it with a 4K disc reader and a HDR-10+ or Dolby Vision on HDMI 2.1 with VRR .... So its going be interesting for quite some one....

    new HW is needed also because Hakers went trough PS4 protections... Freesinc also a necessity as MS has it... A 2018/2019 release of an upgraded PRO@7nm (a pro-s or pro2) could have sense and be realistic as replacement of both ps4 and ps4pro. To keep price at 300 $ I think 6TF / 8 Giga ram, 1 tera HD, freesinc, HDMI 2.1.... 16 Jaguars@2.6 ghz to give also some kind of CPU bump... Another version at 450 $ but 1 tera SSD....
     
    #46 HBRU, Apr 20, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 23, 2018
  7. Shifty Geezer

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    Has the hacking of PS4 lead to mainstream piracy and the loss of earnings for Sony? If not, no new hardware is needed. Even if so, new hardware has never been the solution in the past, with PS and 3DS etc. having massive piracy and still sticking with the same hardware.

    Has everyone got Freesync displays and is clamouring for a Freesync enabled console? If not, no new hardware is needed. You could as readily argue a new console is needed with HD movie support because MS has it, but if it's a niche feature no-one wants right now, it's not worth creating a whole new interim platform. When these features matter, include them next-gen.
     
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  8. HBRU

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    yes of course...
    but having them doesnt harm :)
    also I dont see Sony leaving behind huge PS4 installed base but just smooth incrementally upgrading... RAM is such expensive now that to keep price into 300 $ in 2018/2019 is difficult to immagine more than the actual 8+1 gigabyte...
    probably a 512 giga SSD would be really great if they keep all into the 350 $ as with gamestop promo you may then get the console with just 200$

    about hacking....
    creating new hw you keep care also of this of course....

    also new games would be nice if they both give PS5 forward compatibility by using all the 16 cpu cores (of course at a min of 720@30 fps but that you dont need to say)
     
    #48 HBRU, Apr 23, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 23, 2018
  9. ToTTenTranz

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    Well... not freesync but I do believe all mid-to-top-range TVs coming in 2019 will come with VRR (regardless of having full HDMI 2.1 compliance or not), making it pretty much mandatory to have it in consoles by 2020.
    I think most devs will enjoy a world where 60FPS games don't need to have an absolute maximum 16.66ms frametime throughout the entire game.


    I don't think that's a valid reason to launch a Pro 2, though.
     
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  10. HBRU

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    price & installed base are ;)
    also a way to say "sorry you ps4 game can run on ps5 only if pro2 patched"... as pro2 has 16 cores, 3 times CPU power as orig PS4)....

    Today with new hw you dont have such big leaps in graph as before... And also new hw progress much slower... So its NORMAL that current gen will last longer, imho 2023... 10 years...

    Realistically how better a 800$ PS5@7nm can perform in comparision with a 6/8 TF, 300 $ pro2@7nm ?!?



    well Sony can even just copy the OneX... (on the bus wide)... with GDDR6... With such really fast bus the 16 jaguars will perform much much better I guess (becouse L3 will be less a necessity)... So -as OneX- 12 gigabytes but GDDR6. Having supermega zens on a narrow bus is not usefull... So better spend Silicon on bus. According to the bus transfer rate then must be then builded up the GPU. I guess no more than 10 TF are possible on Vega on console compatible freq and powers...

    same 7nm chip but bad -> pro by disabling some parts and clocking lower... Good-> pro2
     
    #50 HBRU, Apr 23, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2018
  11. HBRU

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  12. Wynix

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    I don't see any path that takes us to a further fragmentation of the console user base, Sony already have their hands full with the base PS4, the Pro and PSVR.
    I only see the replacement of the generation as the next step.
     
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  13. HBRU

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    4k@60 fps stable on all games is the main (maybe only) focus of MS Project Scarlett... will see if more of jaguars are enough....
     
  14. HBRU

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    Intel's and Amd's race to cpu core count (instead of freq) feeds my hypothesis of MORE jaguars core coming instead of less more powerfull Ryzens... 16/20 I say... So they can sell to pc gamers the new multicored CPU...
     
  15. Tkumpathenurpahl

    Tkumpathenurpahl Oil Monsieur Geezer
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    So they can sell to PC gamers a multi core CPU that they no longer manufacture?
     
  16. vipa899

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    Pc gamers aint buying a console for the specs, its the exclusives that do, and then only for that, a PS only for the games a pc gamer doesnt get.
     
  17. Cyan

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    do you think AMD will be ready? Let's appoint your time, and we shall see.
     
  18. HBRU

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    I'm sure a PS4 of some kind will be released at 7nm (2019) ... Vanilla type? Pro type ? Pro2 type ? They have to redesign the SOC and maybe also for using GDDR6... More Bandwidth as seen with OneX may really give a boost to Jaguars... More Jaguars (16 or 20) will give AMD room to sell multicored CPU to PC gamers as new games will require more cores. I know that Ryzens core are not Jaguar cores of course... :D ... But at 7nm Jaguars core maybe really small.... By extending PS4 life Sony can delay PS5 to 2023 where a much more powerfull PS5 will arrive

    gamers play games that developers develop... they develop sw stuff that runs in widespread & cheap hardware (they sell bits not hw)...
     
    #58 HBRU, Jul 4, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2018
  19. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
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    You envision a market with 70 million PS4s and 35 million XB1s and 10 million 4Pros into which is released a more-core console and you think devs will target it to the exclusion of the rest of the consoles?? If devs target it exclusively and games run on a new console that won't on the previous one, you've got a new generation. If it doesn't and it gets ports of the lower-tier consoles, it'll never be used fully as there's no economic sense to maximising the platform for game developers.

    Either way, the concept serves no meaningful purpose. Either start a new generation or stick with the current hardware and avoid fragmenting the userbase.
     
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  20. HBRU

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    your argument are of course correct... But if PS5 comes in 5 years there is room for my idea (ps5 may have the same core number but finally something more performant)... additional silicon for going from 8 to even 20 jaguar cores is tiny at 7 nm becouse jaguars cores are small and the 13 additional cores available may be used more and more as time passes... But as I said they may also state that only pro2 games will be forward compatible... But I agree all this is a bit difficult

    well they need just one STRONG game that runs on PRO2 only (or PC with proper CPU core number) to convince a lot of people to change console or change PC...
     
    #60 HBRU, Jul 4, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2018
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